[NetBehaviour] State of new media from strawberry fields forever -

Stefan Immelmann-Winter sim.winter at soy.de
Tue Jul 19 11:47:54 CEST 2005


> disappearing...that's the nature of existence...the
> clouds pass by....

but they pass by every day :) and we can say: " Hey doesn´t this cloud look 
like a dragon and this like a face". And even if there is no cloud we can 
say: "Waoo what a beautiful day, no clouds at all". So the clouds can be 
there even if they are not there So disappearing is the nature of existing 
and returning is the nature of existing. both is true at the same time.
But isn´t all what we do related to: How much  ìt is in communication? I 
mean, i can create something for me. Having a communication with myself and 
the media (medium) i am working with. There might be an output and i say hey 
this looks nice or has somthing in it i like (or has something in it i don´t 
like an now i can put it away;). So it has a value for me. Next step might 
be the communication in your peer group. Perhaps your work has something in 
it other people may consider as interesting or touching or the just like it 
as well. 3. Step might be the communication across the border of this 
community to a broader audience if your work has the something in it that 
can be communicated on a more common level.
NetArt never seems to cross the line to level 3. Allways closed circles of 
established art groups, dealing with encryption in a way that even the 
interested could only understand after years of engagement... existing in a 
medium that has this one viewer character to be used for ebay. (This is what 
makes the value of the net for my social environment :)

Sometimes i think all of us spending years of work into a medium that migth 
never return anything to them, must have a deep wish to exactly work on this 
point: Radical one way communication, accepting that perhaps no one will 
ever return anything to what you say (if i may use the word "say" for an art 
expression).

Well this is only thoughts and excuse my language its hard to express 
thoughts if you can not talk ;)

best sim.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lewis LaCook" <llacook at yahoo.com>
To: "NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity" 
<netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] State of new media from strawberry fields 
forever -


> ---i am absolutely comfortable with it all just
> disappearing...that's the nature of existence...the
> clouds pass by....
>
>
> bliss
> l
>
>
>
>
> --- rich white <rich at counterwork.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> so when the internet explodes/implodes net artists
>> will stop making?
>> didn't we make stuff using other things before the
>> internet?
>> we'll probably find new things to use, won't we?
>> probably get bored of the internet before then?
>> and no artwork lasts for ever, no artwork is
>> absolute, whether it be made of stone, piant,
>> plastic or zeros and ones.
>> what persists is our memory of it.
>> (yes, i know, this is fallible too, but that's half
>> the fun.)
>>
>> oh, and cheer up alan, it can't be as bad as all
>> that can it?
>>
>> rich
>>
>> On Mon,
> 18 Jul 2005 10:39 , Ken Turner
>> <ken at sqallp.freeserve.co.uk> sent:
>>
>> >Alan,
>> >What you're saying is, shall we say partly true and
>> well said.
>> >What anyone says is normally partly true.
>> >but is truth the question?
>> >Nietzsche was perhaps only partly true concerning
>> nihilism and the
>> >abyss.
>> >But what is there after the abyss?
>> >My understanding is that art is not what appears on
>> the surface, its
>> >physical optical form  is not a representation of
>> art.
>> >It is more than that. That sounds like a cliche,
>> but read on.
>> >And of course both philosophy and art do not, in
>> themselves, move on.
>> >-they only repeat the impossibility of being able
>> to express what it is
>> >to be human.
>> >But in trying there is some achievement 'in depth'
>> whether in Rembrandt
>> >or Cezanne, Kandinsky or Brecht or Beckett, to name
>> a few.
>> >Something in this relates to our indentity and
>> place.
>> >To paraphrase Merleau Ponty,  three dimensions only
>> make sense when all
>> >three are rolled into the one of 'depth'.
>> >Hermes Trismegistus said it is the "inarticulate
>> cry".
>> >ken
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On 18 Jul 2005, at 04:18, Alan Sondheim wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> State of new media from strawberry fields forever
>> -
>> >>
>> >> The work I'm doing isn't much different from the
>> work you're doing.
>> >> It will disappear when the net goes down or when
>> it's no longer tended.
>> >> Nobody tends things forever.
>> >> It's amazingly ephemeral; there's nothing to it;
>> it's stillborn, passed
>> >> in email or on a website, that's all.
>> >> It's not as if we're contributing to the
>> well-being of humanity; the
>> >> idea that art makes any sort of social or
>> political difference is long
>> >> outmoded, repeatedly proven wrong.
>> >> We're not even making paintings which have a
>> modicum of a chance of
>> >> survival, 'being as how' they're concrete, inert,
>> almost idiotic things
>> >> (in the sense of Rosset or Sartre).
>> >> Certainly we haven't made any contribution to
>> physical theory or the
>> >> sciences in general, and our work is rarely
>> entertaining.
>> >> At our performances and readings, only the rest
>> of us show up.
>> >> The 'culture' such as it is, follows mass media,
>> corporate distribution
>> >> systems, subtended radicalities; the best one
>> hopes for is museum
>> >> sponsorship.
>> >> We've saved no one's lives through our art - turn
>> the machine off, and
>> >> we're pretty much done for.
>> >> We engage in outmoded theories, bouncing one
>> theorist off another, as
>> >> if
>> >> any of it mattered in the universe at large.
>> >> We work through fast-forward intellectual
>> fashions, situations in which
>> >> phenomenology, existentialism, postmodernism,
>> deconstruction, and so
>> >> forth
>> >> - name your 'movement,' name your theorist - are
>> considered outmoded,
>> >> as
>> >> if philosophy had advanced since Heraclitus.
>> >> We ignore scientific theory, or borrow from it,
>> on a simplistic or
>> >> meta-
>> >> phoric level, as a form of legitimation, as if
>> we're somehow connected
>> >> with scientific 'advances.'
>> >> We confuse science with technology, substituting
>> cleverness for any
>> >> real
>> >> disciplinary understanding, in fields ranging
>> from psychoanalysis
>> >> through
>> >> physics.
>> >> Our theoretical work is written as if it somehow
>> matters, somehow says
>> >> something about the world, which we hardly
>> understand.
>> >> We substitute cultural politics for political
>> action and depth; we
>> >> ignore
>> >> war or illustrate it.
>> >> We entertain ourselves endlessly, as if our work
>> had nothing to do with
>> >> entertainment (some might call us failed
>> comedians, novelists, what
>> >> have
>> >> you, substituting surface transformations for
>> that hypothetical depth
>> >> that
>> >> seems to infest the canon).
>> >> I am guilty of all of the above.
>> >> We go on and on and on...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> NetBehaviour at netbehaviour.org
>> >>
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> ***************************************************************************
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>
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