[NetBehaviour] Fwd: Mickey Mouse Bill

Mon May 19 01:08:20 CEST 2008

Silly me... and I thought Michael was making an informed contribution for "a lot of us here" in the States... yet it's nothing of the sort... Michael has nothing to say about the Orphan Works Bill... but throws in "copyright tout court" expecting people to know what he's talking about... 

The implications of this Bill, if passed in America, will be global, and particularly detrimental for artists... ... more info at

http://photobusinessforum.blogspot.com/2008/05/orphan-works-2008-wolf-in-sheeps.html

Bob

----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Szpakowski <szpako at yahoo.com>
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org>
Sent: Sunday, 18 May, 2008 11:11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Fwd: Mickey Mouse Bill

Try reading what I wrote. I defended nothing - I questioned the whole concept of copyright. 
<someone who knows what
"a lot of us" are thinking>
I think what I said was probably just a statement of fact as far as this list is concerned; I could be wrong. I'm aware it's not a mainstream view.
<across the pond>
I don't know what pond divides Norfolk from Cambridgeshire & Essex. Bit more thinking & investigating before talking perhaps Bob :)
m.

--- On Sun, 5/18/08, bob catchpole <bobcatchpole at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> From: bob catchpole <bobcatchpole at yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Fwd: Mickey Mouse Bill
> To: "NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity" <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org>
> Date: Sunday, May 18, 2008, 7:27 PM
> Michael Szpakowski wrote:
> 
> > I think a lot of us here lean towards the view that
> it's copyright tout court that's indefensible.
> 
> Fascinating stuff... I describe an ongoing fiasco, our two
> friends across the pond go on defending it... It's
> possible to see how something as awful as the Orphan Works
> Bill could even be contemplated over there.
> 
> It's invaluable to hear from someone who knows what
> "a lot of us" are thinking...
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Michael Szpakowski <szpako at yahoo.com>
> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
> <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org>
> Sent: Sunday, 18 May, 2008 6:45:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Fwd: Mickey Mouse Bill
> 
> *Why defend the indefensible?*
> 
> I think a lot of us here lean towards the view that
> it's copyright tout court that's indefensible.
> michael
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Sun, 5/18/08, bob catchpole
> <bobcatchpole at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > From: bob catchpole <bobcatchpole at yahoo.co.uk>
> > Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Fwd: Mickey Mouse Bill
> > To: "NetBehaviour for networked distributed
> creativity" <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org>
> > Date: Sunday, May 18, 2008, 5:10 PM
> > Hi Rob,
> > 
> > Why defend the indefensible?
> > 
> > Rob Myers wrote:
> > 
> > > Automatic possession of copyright *is* in line
> with
> > the rest of the world.
> > 
> > Yes, but ONLY in the States it doesn't mean
> anything
> > unless the work is registered. What kind of right is
> that?
> > 
> >
> http://photobusinessforum.blogspot.com/2008/05/orphan-works-2008-wolf-in-sheeps.html
> > 
> > > The Orphan Works bill ensures that everyone still
> pays
> > damages, but that they do so fairly.
> > 
> > That rubbish Rob, there's no chance of damages if
> the
> > work isn't registered. ONLY in the States!
> > 
> > > The registry system is optional
> > 
> > The registry system is PERVERSE. Non-participation
> allows
> > infringers to use your work with impunity. 
> > 
> > > The registry system is optional and is designed
> to
> > build on services like DACS (I forget the US
> equivalent) 
> > 
> > A registry system ONLY exists in the States. DACS, a
> > designers and artists association in the UK, is likely
> > horrified at the Orphan Works Bill.
> > 
> > Actually, the American registry system is a form of
> state
> > intervention in the market place that isn't
> tolerated
> > anywhere else.
> > 
> > Bob.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Rob Myers <rob at robmyers.org>
> > To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
> > <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, 18 May, 2008 3:02:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Fwd: Mickey Mouse Bill
> > 
> > bob catchpole wrote:
> > > Rob Myers wrote:
> > > 
> > >  > Registration only affects damages where
> > copyright is infringed.
> > > 
> > > So if someone uses your work without permission
> and
> > you haven't 
> > > registered you're not entitled to damages.
> ONLY in
> > the States. 
> > 
> > It is possible to register afterwards and claim
> damages on
> > the basis of 
> > that but I believe this has issues.
> > 
> > > Why not 
> > > come into line with the rest of the world? 
> > 
> > Automatic possession of copyright *is* in line with
> the
> > rest of the world.
> > 
> > > Just get rid of the need (and 
> > > expense, $30 a time) to register.
> > 
> > You can register copyrights in the UK. Establishing
> the
> > date of 
> > publication can be useful.
> > 
> > > Currently many working photographers in America
> are
> > compelled to do the 
> > > same as Seth Resnick: "Every image that I
> shoot
> > is registered before it 
> > > ever leaves my office."  To us outside the
> States
> > this seems ludicrous -
> > > time-consuming, expensive and a perversion of an
> > automatic universal 
> > > right. And in the Land of the Free!...
> > > 
> > >  > The purpose behind the “visual
> registries”
> > provisions is to help 
> > > artists keep
> > >  > ownership information associated with their
> > works...
> > > 
> > > To help artists? Artists are automatically owners
> of
> > their work. Nowhere 
> > > else do they need to register the fact.
> > 
> > Artists receive copyright on completion of the work in
> the
> > US the same 
> > as everywhere else, and this copyright allows them to
> > prevent other 
> > people from copying their work (and thereby profiting
> from
> > it) the same 
> > as everywhere else.
> > 
> > Orphan works *are* a genuine problem for society that
> need
> > tackling, 
> > even if the current bill is not perfect. The bill can
> be
> > improved, and 
> > Public Knowledge have suggestions for this.
> > 
> > The bill is not pro-corporate. Currently only big
> > corporations can 
> > afford the risk of publishing old work with unknown
> > copyright status. 
> > Damages could wipe out an individual or a smaller
> > organization. The 
> > Orphan Works bill ensures that everyone still pays
> damages,
> > but that 
> > they do so fairly.
> > 
> > The registry system is optional and is designed to
> build on
> > services 
> > like DACS (I forget the US equivalent) that enforce
> > copyrights and fees 
> > under the current system. Most professional artists
> and
> > designers 
> > already belong to such a scheme.
> > 
> > - Rob.
> > _______________________________________________
> > NetBehaviour mailing list
> > NetBehaviour at netbehaviour.org
> >
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> > 
> > 
> >      
> >
> __________________________________________________________
> > Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> > A Smarter Email
> >
> http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html_______________________________________________
> > NetBehaviour mailing list
> > NetBehaviour at netbehaviour.org
> >
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour at netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> 
> 
>      
> __________________________________________________________
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> A Smarter Email
> http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html_______________________________________________
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour at netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour

_______________________________________________
NetBehaviour mailing list
NetBehaviour at netbehaviour.org
http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour

      __________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.netbehaviour.org/pipermail/netbehaviour/attachments/20080518/64940d32/attachment.htm>