[NetBehaviour] naughty boy

Wed Aug 19 19:02:49 CEST 2009

These is innaresting questions to me.

I definitely think education is most valuable for the connections it
gets you. I would regard my education as a complete waste if it were
not for the job I got the summer after graduation, which led to
another job, which got me some training, which allowed me to start a
profitable consulting career. Whether that was worth 50,000 USD (I got
off cheap) is questionable.

Being an engineer on the edge of Silicon Valley, there are plenty of
opportunities for stable 6-figure salaries and "cash outs". I've
passed up several positions in favor of part-time employment that
gives me a mix of financial stability and free time to pursue my
artistic interests. Doing this, I've noticed two ugly edges:

1) Other artists disregard me as unprofessional because I haven't
chased grants. It's been a more efficient use of effort to just fund
myself. Many professional artists in SF are trustafarians, and don't
need to worry about the risk of living grant-to-grant.

2) I'm increasingly looking at combining my art and my work--the work
becomes more fun, the art becomes more practical. Being a software
engineer lends itself well to this mindset, as I'm used to building
things that I find elegant and beautiful, and yet that are very
useful. At what point, however, does the art become design? This is an
important business question: many of my clients are bonafide artists,
but is my "firm" a design firm? How do I market myself? How do I find
jobs that are fun and lucrative?

-ISH
http://idiosyncra.tc

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 3:47 AM, Pall Thayer<pallthay at gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh, and I don't think it's quite correct to say that Universities are
> just out to make money. It costs a lot of money to run a quality
> university. The best way to get the most for your money is to keep
> going. Masters and Doctoral students are far more likely to receive
> grants and tuition wavers. It's perfectly reasonable that
> undergraduate students generally pay the most out of their pockets
> because they return the least to the university whereas advanced
> degree students can potentially bring added recognition and funds.
> Most, if not all, universities are non-profit organizations. So any
> money that comes in stays in. There aren't many people getting "rich"
> off universities.
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Simon Biggs<s.biggs at eca.ac.uk> wrote:
>> There are intense Taylorist pressures in society at this time and the
>> current UK government is playing to that tune. It is a pity.
>>
>> As for how academic institutions think – yes, they have to consider their
>> bottom line. That means weighing up the costs and likely gain for each of
>> their activities. No institution can run an activity at a loss for too long
>> and it is always hard to argue for cross-subsidy from profitable to
>> unprofitable courses, especially in the transparent costing regime that now
>> exists (where departments and courses have to pay for the internal
>> institutional resources they use and then break even or generate a surplus
>> against other institutional activities).
>>
>> However, it is important to remember that not all courses cost the same to
>> run. Chalk and talk, like Media Studies, History and many other social
>> science and humanities subjects, are relatively cheap to run, especially in
>> those institutions without strong tutorial based traditions (that means most
>> new Universities). Other courses are far more expensive, sometimes by
>> multiple factors. These include the creative arts, film and TV, medicine,
>> architecture, mathematics and engineering. But the fees institutions can
>> charge are not really variable, although the gearing employed by HEFCE/SHEFC
>> to calculate the annual grant is subject sensitive. That goes some way to
>> paying these extra costs – but not all the way. It is then a political
>> decision whether to subsidise certain subjects to ensure they survive.
>> Currently creative arts subjects are getting a relatively good deal.
>>
>> In Scotland we have no student fees so the situation is very different to
>> the rest of the UK. However, it is not a bed or roses – even for the
>> students. The unit resource per student here is falling in comparison to the
>> UK and will fall further if UK fees rise and Scotland sustains free Higher
>> Education at the point of delivery. This will be bad news for both
>> institutions and students north of the border as we will struggle to compete
>> with the UK market, losing our best staff and, eventually, students  - who
>> will follow quality, even if it costs more.
>>
>> Personally I do not know what the solution for this is – expect wholesale
>> reform of the system both sides of the border. I don’t like the idea of
>> students running up massive debts and am comfortable with the redistributive
>> aspects of paying for education through general taxation. However, as mostly
>> middle-class kids benefit from HE access the question then is from whom is
>> the money being redistributed and to whom? In this context a graduate tax
>> system (as is run in Australia) might actually be fairer and more
>> redistributive in favour of traditionally disadvantaged socio-economic
>> groups.
>>
>> It is a difficut issue to untangle and I wonder if there ever was a golden
>> age of Higher Education?
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Simon
>>
>> Simon Biggs
>> Research Professor
>> edinburgh college of art
>> s.biggs at eca.ac.uk
>> www.eca.ac.uk
>> www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
>>
>> simon at littlepig.org.uk
>> www.littlepig.org.uk
>> AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Corrado Morgana <corradomorgana at blueyonder.co.uk>
>> Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>> <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org>
>> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:58:15 +0100
>> To: 'NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity'
>> <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] naughty boy
>>
>> A recent radio4 article..some minister discussing the cost of education.The
>> gist: If a student can’t afford an education then they should look for
>> courses which will guarantee an income after the course. AAARRGGGHH!!!
>> Educational institutes as we know are businesses, they will taylor their
>> courses to those that make money and get students-art courses and especially
>> media arts related courses are being chewed up and mauled by increased
>> student targets (international and national) lower funding and critically
>> for this argument, higher student fees. If students who cannot afford
>> courses are vectored towards courses that will generate employment, such as
>> was mentioned apprenticeships, my fear is that this will create a more
>> taylorised and stratified class system-I think most have heard this before.
>> Those less well off will end up doing apprenticeships while the other more
>> well off will enter the more academic and creative ‘stuff’ [trust funds and
>> old boy networks help]. This is a pattern I’m see in arts education already.
>> I came from an immigrant, council housed, NHS, breadline family and ended up
>> going through further education the year before student loans were
>> introduced…phew, would never have been able to otherwise have completed or
>> even started an arts education.. the other options would have been a welding
>> apprenticeship and the steelworks, all noble but the equivalent of a slow
>> painful death for me at the time. (computer salesman nearly killed me as
>> well!)
>>
>> The art scene that I mix in is largely not trustafarian and wealthy. Bright,
>> intelligent and academic, a healthy mix of social backgrounds
>> We might end up filling Britain’s deficit of plumbers and bricklayers-some
>> whose ‘hobbies’ might be art; some who genuinely contribute, create and
>> evolve ‘art’. But implicit taylorisation worries me, as does Sennet, for
>> other reasons
>>
>> Rant over..
>>
>> C
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: netbehaviour-bounces at netbehaviour.org
>> [mailto:netbehaviour-bounces at netbehaviour.org] On Behalf Of Simon Biggs
>> Sent: 19 August 2009 8:20 AM
>> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] naughty boy
>>
>> Hi Alan
>>
>> I wasn’t trying to address that argument – just questioning whether
>> education and work ethic are enough to facilitate a meaningful life. Yes,
>> decent health care is important. A degree of financial security highly
>> deslirable.
>>
>> The US spends more of its GDP on health care (16%) than any other country in
>> the world and yet is the only OECD country not to have some form of
>> universal care. The outcome of that is that average US life expectancy is
>> lower than the OECD average (even lower than the UK’s – whose NHS costs 8%
>> of GDP and has taken such a battering in the US media recently). What Obama
>> is trying to do with US health care looks way overdue and only sensible.
>> Those arrayed against him look like selfish big business protecting its
>> bottom line at the expense of the people.
>>
>> Mind you, everyone admires American teeth ;)
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>> Simon Biggs
>> Research Professor
>> edinburgh college of art
>> s.biggs at eca.ac.uk
>> www.eca.ac.uk
>> www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
>>
>> simon at littlepig.org.uk
>> www.littlepig.org.uk
>> AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim at panix.com>
>> Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>> <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org>
>> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:15:26 -0400 (EDT)
>> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>> <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org>
>> Cc: Theory and Writing <WRYTING-L at listserv.wvu.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] naughty boy
>>
>>
>>
>> It's not instrumentalist; it's more fundamental. If you're crazy with
>> stress because of bad health care, little or no income, you just don't
>> function well. If you have students, I assume you're full time - my two
>> courses at SVA won't even pay the bills (adjuncts get next to nothing). I
>> have nightmares over this, migraines, etc. In other words there has to be
>> a modicum of feeling you're not going to lose your apartment or your
>> teeth, you're going to have some sort of stability somewhere. I don't have
>> that - it doesn't sound like 'naughty boy' does either.
>>
>> - Alan
>>
>> On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, Simon Biggs wrote:
>>
>>> I always feel guilty seeking to justify to students why they should
>>> persist
>>> with completing their degrees, whether BA, MA or PhD – so I don’t. They
>>> often say they want a degree so they can get a decent job and balance that
>>> with their creative practice. They say they see me, with a job and an
>>> artistic career, as a role model. I point out to them I left school at 15
>>> with no qualifications -  to be a hippy. Other than being an artist and
>>> coincidentally securing various positions because of my artistic
>>> activities,
>>> including my current one, I have never had what I consider a real job in
>>> my
>>> life. I’m just a good for nothing artist – at least in the eyes of the
>>> taxi
>>> driver or plumber I often encounter (people with real jobs). It seems that
>>> being good for nothing can be more rewarding than being socially useful.
>>>
>>> I find it a worrying that people judge themselves by whether they are
>>> gainfully employed or not. Everyone has something to contribute. We live
>>> in
>>> societies, both poor and wealthy, that historically have tolerated
>>> significant percentages of their populations being what, in todays terms,
>>> we
>>> would consider economically inactive. However, economic inactivity does
>>> not
>>> mean a lack of productivity. There are so many ways that people can
>>> contribute value to themselves and those around them without getting a
>>> job.
>>> I never wanted a job anyway!
>>>
>>> We should not allow an instrumentalist view of life to become
>>> paradigmatic,
>>> especially in creative practice. That is the death of the artist.
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Simon
>>>
>>>
>>> Simon Biggs
>>> Research Professor
>>> edinburgh college of art
>>> s.biggs at eca.ac.uk
>>> www.eca.ac.uk
>>> www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
>>>
>>> simon at littlepig.org.uk
>>> www.littlepig.org.uk
>>> AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim at panix.com>
>>> Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>>> <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org>
>>> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:25:23 -0400 (EDT)
>>> To: Theory and Writing <WRYTING-L at listserv.wvu.edu>
>>> Cc: <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] naughty boy
>>>
>>> My degree's in english, which has been useless all
>>> these years; Azure's is in environmental conservation from NYU (mine's
>>> from Brown). She hasn't been able to get work; I teach from time to time,
>>> part-time, and the stress is incredible; I think about suicide, running
>>> away with Azure, etc. etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number
>>> SC009201
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> | current internet text file: http://www.alansondheim.org/qf.txt
>> | Alan Sondheim Mail archive:  http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/
>> | Webpage (directory) at http://www.alansondheim.org
>> | sondheim at panix.com, sondheim at gmail.org, tel US 718-813-3285
>> ! http://www.facebook.com/alan.sondheim
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
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>> Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number
>> SC009201
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
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>> Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number
>> SC009201
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> *****************************
> Pall Thayer
> artist
> http://www.this.is/pallit
> *****************************
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