[NetBehaviour] naughty boy

Thu Aug 20 09:42:43 CEST 2009

Referring to Pall¹s post  I wasn¹t suggesting that Universities are getting
rich. Yes, they are non-profit usually. In the UK they are not even private
but public institutions funded from tax payers money (well, one  Buckingham
-  out of 130, is a private University in the form that an American would
recognise it). However, they cannot lose money either or they will close,
especially in the current climate where the UK Government has run out of
surplus funds. I don¹t know about the States but in the UK the situation
Alan described at Florida State is default, where each department has to buy
services from others and the centre. It is a form of internal market. If a
department loses money it has to claw it back somehow. There is little
latitude in the system. Healthy departments will usually have a range of
students from foundation through to PhD. This allows them to spread income
and risk but cross-subsidy between courses and programmes doesn¹t happen so
you cannot expect a profitable programme to support another. Courses, even
departments, do close down at quite short notice and as there is no concept
of tenure in the UK even senior staff have little job security  when an
institution needs to down-size, as many currently are, they can be flexible
and do so quite quickly.

I note that even at prestige US institutions, like Harvard, there are
similar pressures and radical solutions being implemented.

Best

Simon

Simon Biggs
Research Professor
edinburgh college of art
s.biggs at eca.ac.uk
www.eca.ac.uk
www.eca.ac.uk/circle/

simon at littlepig.org.uk
www.littlepig.org.uk
AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk

From: Ian Smith-Heisters <i at idiosyncra.tc>
Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
<netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:02:49 -0700
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
<netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org>
Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] naughty boy

These is innaresting questions to me. I definitely think education is most
valuable for the connections it gets you. I would regard my education as a
complete waste if it were not for the job I got the summer after graduation,
which led to another job, which got me some training, which allowed me to
start a profitable consulting career. Whether that was worth 50,000 USD (I
got off cheap) is questionable. Being an engineer on the edge of Silicon
Valley, there are plenty of opportunities for stable 6-figure salaries and
"cash outs". I've passed up several positions in favor of part-time
employment that gives me a mix of financial stability and free time to
pursue my artistic interests. Doing this, I've noticed two ugly edges: 1)
Other artists disregard me as unprofessional because I haven't chased
grants. It's been a more efficient use of effort to just fund myself. Many
professional artists in SF are trustafarians, and don't need to worry about
the risk of living grant-to-grant. 2) I'm increasingly looking at combining
my art and my work--the work becomes more fun, the art becomes more
practical. Being a software engineer lends itself well to this mindset, as
I'm used to building things that I find elegant and beautiful, and yet that
are very useful. At what point, however, does the art become design? This is
an important business question: many of my clients are bonafide artists, but
is my "firm" a design firm? How do I market myself? How do I find jobs that
are fun and lucrative? -ISH http://idiosyncra.tc On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at
3:47 AM, Pall Thayer<pallthay at gmail.com> wrote: > Oh, and I don't think it's
quite correct to say that Universities are > just out to make money. It
costs a lot of money to run a quality > university. The best way to get the
most for your money is to keep > going. Masters and Doctoral students are
far more likely to receive > grants and tuition wavers. It's perfectly
reasonable that > undergraduate students generally pay the most out of their
pockets > because they return the least to the university whereas advanced >
degree students can potentially bring added recognition and funds. > Most,
if not all, universities are non-profit organizations. So any > money that
comes in stays in. There aren't many people getting "rich" > off
universities. > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Simon
Biggs<s.biggs at eca.ac.uk> wrote: >> There are intense Taylorist pressures in
society at this time and the >> current UK government is playing to that
tune. It is a pity. >> >> As for how academic institutions think  yes, they
have to consider their >> bottom line. That means weighing up the costs and
likely gain for each of >> their activities. No institution can run an
activity at a loss for too long >> and it is always hard to argue for
cross-subsidy from profitable to >> unprofitable courses, especially in the
transparent costing regime that now >> exists (where departments and courses
have to pay for the internal >> institutional resources they use and then
break even or generate a surplus >> against other institutional activities).
>> >> However, it is important to remember that not all courses cost the
same to >> run. Chalk and talk, like Media Studies, History and many other
social >> science and humanities subjects, are relatively cheap to run,
especially in >> those institutions without strong tutorial based traditions
(that means most >> new Universities). Other courses are far more expensive,
sometimes by >> multiple factors. These include the creative arts, film and
TV, medicine, >> architecture, mathematics and engineering. But the fees
institutions can >> charge are not really variable, although the gearing
employed by HEFCE/SHEFC >> to calculate the annual grant is subject
sensitive. That goes some way to >> paying these extra costs  but not all
the way. It is then a political >> decision whether to subsidise certain
subjects to ensure they survive. >> Currently creative arts subjects are
getting a relatively good deal. >> >> In Scotland we have no student fees so
the situation is very different to >> the rest of the UK. However, it is not
a bed or roses  even for the >> students. The unit resource per student
here is falling in comparison to the >> UK and will fall further if UK fees
rise and Scotland sustains free Higher >> Education at the point of
delivery. This will be bad news for both >> institutions and students north
of the border as we will struggle to compete >> with the UK market, losing
our best staff and, eventually, students  - who >> will follow quality, even
if it costs more. >> >> Personally I do not know what the solution for this
is  expect wholesale >> reform of the system both sides of the border. I
don¹t like the idea of >> students running up massive debts and am
comfortable with the redistributive >> aspects of paying for education
through general taxation. However, as mostly >> middle-class kids benefit
from HE access the question then is from whom is >> the money being
redistributed and to whom? In this context a graduate tax >> system (as is
run in Australia) might actually be fairer and more >> redistributive in
favour of traditionally disadvantaged socio-economic >> groups. >> >> It is
a difficut issue to untangle and I wonder if there ever was a golden >> age
of Higher Education? >> >> Best >> >> Simon >> >> Simon Biggs >> Research
Professor >> edinburgh college of art >> s.biggs at eca.ac.uk >> www.eca.ac.uk
>> www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ >> >> simon at littlepig.org.uk >>
www.littlepig.org.uk >> AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk >> >> >>
________________________________ >> From: Corrado Morgana
<corradomorgana at blueyonder.co.uk> >> Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked
distributed creativity >> <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org> >> Date: Wed, 19
Aug 2009 10:58:15 +0100 >> To: 'NetBehaviour for networked distributed
creativity' >> <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org> >> Subject: Re:
[NetBehaviour] naughty boy >> >> A recent radio4 article..some minister
discussing the cost of education.The >> gist: If a student can¹t afford an
education then they should look for >> courses which will guarantee an
income after the course. AAARRGGGHH!!! >> Educational institutes as we know
are businesses, they will taylor their >> courses to those that make money
and get students-art courses and especially >> media arts related courses
are being chewed up and mauled by increased >> student targets
(international and national) lower funding and critically >> for this
argument, higher student fees. If students who cannot afford >> courses are
vectored towards courses that will generate employment, such as >> was
mentioned apprenticeships, my fear is that this will create a more >>
taylorised and stratified class system-I think most have heard this before.
>> Those less well off will end up doing apprenticeships while the other
more >> well off will enter the more academic and creative Ostuff¹ [trust
funds and >> old boy networks help]. This is a pattern I¹m see in arts
education already. >> I came from an immigrant, council housed, NHS,
breadline family and ended up >> going through further education the year
before student loans were >> introducedSphew, would never have been able to
otherwise have completed or >> even started an arts education.. the other
options would have been a welding >> apprenticeship and the steelworks, all
noble but the equivalent of a slow >> painful death for me at the time.
(computer salesman nearly killed me as >> well!) >> >> The art scene that I
mix in is largely not trustafarian and wealthy. Bright, >> intelligent and
academic, a healthy mix of social backgrounds >> We might end up filling
Britain¹s deficit of plumbers and bricklayers-some >> whose Ohobbies¹ might
be art; some who genuinely contribute, create and >> evolve Oart¹. But
implicit taylorisation worries me, as does Sennet, for >> other reasons >>
>> Rant over.. >> >> C >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From:
netbehaviour-bounces at netbehaviour.org >>
[mailto:netbehaviour-bounces at netbehaviour.org] On Behalf Of Simon Biggs >>
Sent: 19 August 2009 8:20 AM >> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed
creativity >> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] naughty boy >> >> Hi Alan >> >> I
wasn¹t trying to address that argument  just questioning whether >>
education and work ethic are enough to facilitate a meaningful life. Yes, >>
decent health care is important. A degree of financial security highly >>
deslirable. >> >> The US spends more of its GDP on health care (16%) than
any other country in >> the world and yet is the only OECD country not to
have some form of >> universal care. The outcome of that is that average US
life expectancy is >> lower than the OECD average (even lower than the UK¹s
 whose NHS costs 8% >> of GDP and has taken such a battering in the US
media recently). What Obama >> is trying to do with US health care looks way
overdue and only sensible. >> Those arrayed against him look like selfish
big business protecting its >> bottom line at the expense of the people. >>
>> Mind you, everyone admires American teeth ;) >> >> Best >> >> Simon >> >>
>> Simon Biggs >> Research Professor >> edinburgh college of art >>
s.biggs at eca.ac.uk >> www.eca.ac.uk >> www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ >> >>
simon at littlepig.org.uk >> www.littlepig.org.uk >> AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk >>
>> ________________________________ >> >> From: Alan Sondheim
<sondheim at panix.com> >> Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed
creativity >> <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org> >> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009
20:15:26 -0400 (EDT) >> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed
creativity >> <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org> >> Cc: Theory and Writing
<WRYTING-L at listserv.wvu.edu> >> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] naughty boy >>
>> >> >> It's not instrumentalist; it's more fundamental. If you're crazy
with >> stress because of bad health care, little or no income, you just
don't >> function well. If you have students, I assume you're full time - my
two >> courses at SVA won't even pay the bills (adjuncts get next to
nothing). I >> have nightmares over this, migraines, etc. In other words
there has to be >> a modicum of feeling you're not going to lose your
apartment or your >> teeth, you're going to have some sort of stability
somewhere. I don't have >> that - it doesn't sound like 'naughty boy' does
either. >> >> - Alan >> >> On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, Simon Biggs wrote: >> >>> I
always feel guilty seeking to justify to students why they should >>>
persist >>> with completing their degrees, whether BA, MA or PhD  so I
don¹t. They >>> often say they want a degree so they can get a decent job
and balance that >>> with their creative practice. They say they see me,
with a job and an >>> artistic career, as a role model. I point out to them
I left school at 15 >>> with no qualifications -  to be a hippy. Other than
being an artist and >>> coincidentally securing various positions because of
my artistic >>> activities, >>> including my current one, I have never had
what I consider a real job in >>> my >>> life. I¹m just a good for nothing
artist  at least in the eyes of the >>> taxi >>> driver or plumber I often
encounter (people with real jobs). It seems that >>> being good for nothing
can be more rewarding than being socially useful. >>> >>> I find it a
worrying that people judge themselves by whether they are >>> gainfully
employed or not. Everyone has something to contribute. We live >>> in >>>
societies, both poor and wealthy, that historically have tolerated >>>
significant percentages of their populations being what, in todays terms,
>>> we >>> would consider economically inactive. However, economic
inactivity does >>> not >>> mean a lack of productivity. There are so many
ways that people can >>> contribute value to themselves and those around
them without getting a >>> job. >>> I never wanted a job anyway! >>> >>> We
should not allow an instrumentalist view of life to become >>> paradigmatic,
>>> especially in creative practice. That is the death of the artist. >>>
>>> Best >>> >>> Simon >>> >>> >>> Simon Biggs >>> Research Professor >>>
edinburgh college of art >>> s.biggs at eca.ac.uk >>> www.eca.ac.uk >>>
www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ >>> >>> simon at littlepig.org.uk >>>
www.littlepig.org.uk >>> AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Alan
Sondheim <sondheim at panix.com> >>> Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked
distributed creativity >>> <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org> >>> Date: Tue, 18
Aug 2009 13:25:23 -0400 (EDT) >>> To: Theory and Writing
<WRYTING-L at listserv.wvu.edu> >>> Cc: <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org> >>>
Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] naughty boy >>> >>> My degree's in english,
which has been useless all >>> these years; Azure's is in environmental
conservation from NYU (mine's >>> from Brown). She hasn't been able to get
work; I teach from time to time, >>> part-time, and the stress is
incredible; I think about suicide, running >>> away with Azure, etc. etc.
>>> >>> >>> Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in
Scotland, number >>> SC009201 >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> | current internet text
file: http://www.alansondheim.org/qf.txt >> | Alan Sondheim Mail archive:
 http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ >> | Webpage (directory) at
http://www.alansondheim.org >> | sondheim at panix.com, sondheim at gmail.org, tel
US 718-813-3285 >> ! http://www.facebook.com/alan.sondheim >> >>
________________________________ >> >>
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College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number >> SC009201
>> >> >> >> ________________________________ >>
_______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> NetBehaviour at netbehaviour.org >>
http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> >> Edinburgh
College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number >> SC009201
>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour
mailing list >> NetBehaviour at netbehaviour.org >>
http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> > > > > -- >
***************************** > Pall Thayer > artist >
http://www.this.is/pallit > ***************************** >
_______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list
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Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC009201

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