[NetBehaviour] cosmopolitan_financial_class

dave miller dave.miller.uk at gmail.com
Tue Jun 7 12:12:29 CEST 2011


Hi Michael

Thanks for your encouragements, I always appreciate it, and helps keep
me motivated!

About Hudson's comments on separating finance from the rest of the
workings of the capitalist system, he talks a lot about the FIRE
economy - here's something I found:

"What is the FIRE Economy?

The FIRE Economy is one of two economies that operate in the United
States, the UK, and other countries that developed economic policies
that give FIRE industries tax, regulatory, and monetary policy
advantages over productive industries. The other economy is the
Productive Economy that is comprised of businesses that produce
value-added goods and services. The Productive Economy grows based on
profits from sales of goods and services produced by adding
intellectual property and other human value inputs. The FIRE Economy
operates by extracting economic rents, such as interest on debt, from
the rest of the economy.

Wealth is generated in the Productive Economy by the accumulation of
equity value and in the FIRE Economy from economic rents and capital
gains generated asset price inflation without an increase in value.
Examples of asset price inflation periods in the US are technology
stocks from 1998 to 2000 and residential and commercial real estate
from 2002 to 2006. Over a period of decades the FIRE Economy has
become a dominant source of income in the United States. The total sum
of payments within the FIRE Economy are now many times larger than in
the Productive Economy..."

http://www.fireeconomy.com/

thanks again, dave


On 6 June 2011 20:24, Michael Szpakowski <szpako at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Dave
> I didn't think for a moment you intended the connection!!
> Given Hudson's academic credentials he should be aware of the history of the phrase.
> I don't know enough about him. I did a bit of a search and one of the criticisms I keep seeing is that he divorces finance from the workings of the rest of the capitalist system...
> Just looking at the phrase you quote - does he really think manufacturing/industrial capital is any more tied to any single nation state than finance capital? Look at the way companies shift production across continents in search of lower labour costs...
> Though it might be expedient analytically to look at different sections within the capitalist class, ultimately in practice they'll stick together when they confront *us*. The danger of the kind of language Hudson uses is at best that it obscures that fact, at worst that it opens the door to some ideas with a very dubious history...
> cheers (and let's have more drawings!)
> michael
>
> --- On Mon, 6/6/11, dave miller <dave.miller.uk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: dave miller <dave.miller.uk at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] cosmopolitan_financial_class
>> To: "NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity" <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org>
>> Date: Monday, June 6, 2011, 8:03 PM
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> Thanks for having a look, and that's interesting - no I
>> really didn't
>> intend that connection.
>> I lifted the phrase from the article I posted yesterday:
>> http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28245.htm
>>
>> "This attack is being mounted not by nation states as such,
>> but by a
>> cosmopolitan financial class. Finance always has been
>> cosmopolitan
>> more than nationalistic – and always has sought to impose
>> its
>> priorities and lawmaking power over those of parliamentary
>> democracies."
>>
>> I wonder if the author is aware of the point you're
>> raising, because
>> he does use the phrase quite a few times in the
>> article...?
>>
>> all the best, dave
>>
>>
>> On 6 June 2011 19:24, Michael Szpakowski <szpako at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi Dave
>> > As you know I love your work and I'm delighted you're
>> drawing again! Just a point though; I think one has to be
>> very careful with the word "cosmopolitan", especially in
>> conjunction with "financial class" - "cosmopolitan" was
>> classic Stalinist anti-semitic code for "Jewish", and the
>> differentiation of the Capitalist class into "industrial"
>> (read- productive, patriotic) and "financial" (read -
>> parasitic, international) has also historically been used to
>> stoke up anti-semitism:
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasserism
>> > I'm not denying that there can be important
>> differences at some times between the immediate interests of
>> bankers and industrialists but this is a nuance compared to
>> the importance of putting the blame fairly and squarely on
>> the capitalist class *as a whole*...
>> > warmest wishes
>> > michael
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Mon, 6/6/11, dave miller <dave.miller.uk at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> From: dave miller <dave.miller.uk at gmail.com>
>> >> Subject: [NetBehaviour]
>> cosmopolitan_financial_class
>> >> To: "NetBehaviour for networked distributed
>> creativity" <netbehaviour at netbehaviour.org>
>> >> Date: Monday, June 6, 2011, 5:13 PM
>> >> I've just made a new drawing; it's
>> >> going to be part of something else,
>> >> but I wanted to share it:
>> >> http://davemiller.org/drawings/austerity/cosmopolitan_financial_class.png
>> >>
>> >> This is the first thing I've managed to do for
>> ages!
>> >>
>> >> Hope everyone's well
>> >>
>> >> dave
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> >> NetBehaviour at netbehaviour.org
>> >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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