[NetBehaviour] ISIS prehistory

Ana Valdés agora158 at gmail.com
Tue Sep 16 00:39:02 CEST 2014


Alan, I mean "we", the West, we are demonizing Isis when Isis is the child
of the mad policies of the West in the Middle East. If England and France
had not been the big colonial powers they were we should have another
development in the region. And now is the US imposing a colonial rule
without regard of ethnical differences and mistrust.
You did post about Isis and the Assyrian and I was appalled because
everyone is forgetting the Crusades, the first Western backed imperial
invasion of the Middle East. I am a scholar of the Crusades and has been in
the Middle East, Syria, Palestine, Israel, Jordan, ten or twelve times. For
all the ppl living there the Crusades are still alive and the killing of
70000 ppl in two days in Jerusalem sended horror waves to all habitants of
the part of the world.
I should never tell you be silent, Alan, you know me, virtually :) but know
me, I always support you, your thinking, your reflexions and your
creativity.
I wanted only to add more complexity to your post.
Sorry if you felt as a criticism, it was not meant to be.
Ana

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Alan Sondheim <sondheim at panix.com> wrote:

>
>
> This isn't about forgetting atrocities and I feel a bit miffed that you're
> suggesting I've forgotten. This is about a particular mode of warfare that
> goes back 4000 years and is followed almost to the letter by ISIS today.
>
> I'd suggest "war criminal" is a problematic term here unless the ancient
> middle east was full of "war criminals." Terms like these, suggesting we've
> forgotten our own atrocities, etc., all serve to mask what is I think a
> fundamental human condition that we haven't been able to rise above.
>
> If you want me to be silent, I will. But if you are saying "we" are
> forgetting our own atrocities - you may speak for yourself, but not for me.
>
> - Alan
>
>
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014, Ana Vald?s wrote:
>
>  "One of our knights, Letholdus by name, climbed on to the wall of the
>> city.
>> When he reached the top, all the defenders of the city quickly fled along
>> the walls and through the city. Our men followed and pursued them, killing
>> and hacking, as far as the temple of Solomon, and there there was such a
>> slaughter that our men were up to their ankles in the enemy's blood. . . .
>>
>> The emir who commanded the tower of David surrendered to the Count [of St.
>> Gilles] and opened the gate where pilgrims used to pay tribute. Entering
>> the
>> city, our pilgrims pursued and killed the Saracens up to the temple of
>> Solomon. There the Saracens assembled and resisted fiercely all day, so
>> that
>> the whole temple flowed with their blood. At last the pagans were overcome
>> and our men seized many men and women in the temple, killing them or
>> keeping
>> them alive as they saw fit. On the roof of the temple there was a great
>> crowd of pagans of both sexes, to whom Tancred and Gaston de Beert gave
>> their banners [to provide them with protection] . Then the crusaders
>> scattered throughout the city, seizing gold and silver, horses and mules,
>> and houses full of all sorts of goods. Afterwards our men went rejoicing
>> and
>> weeping for joy to adore the sepulchre of our Saviour Jesus and there
>> discharged their debt to Him. . . ."
>>
>> It was the fall of Jerusalem in the year 1099 in the hands of the
>> Crusaders
>>
>> "The Carthaginians endured the siege starting 149 BC to the spring of 146
>> BC, when Scipio Aemilianus successfully assaulted the city. Though the
>> Punic
>> citizens fought valiantly, they were inevitably gradually pushed back by
>> the
>> overwhelming Roman military force and destroyed.
>>
>> Aftermath[edit]
>>
>> Ruins of Carthage
>> Many Carthaginians died from starvation during the later part of the
>> siege,
>> while many others died in the final six days of fighting. When the war
>> ended, the remaining 50,000 Carthaginians, a small part of the original
>> pre-war population, were, as was the normal fate in antiquity of
>> inhabitants
>> of sacked cities, sold into slavery by the victors.[2] Carthage was
>> systematically burned for 17 days; the city's walls and buildings were
>> utterly destroyed. The remaining Carthaginian territories were annexed by
>> Rome and reconstituted to become the Roman province of Africa."
>>
>> Rom burning Carthage and sewing the soil with salt to not allow any grain
>> be
>> planted
>>
>> The old Testament, the Jews treating their enemies
>>
>> 13Thus says the LORD, "For three transgressions of the sons of Ammon and
>> for
>> four I will not revoke its punishment, Because they ripped open the
>> pregnant
>> women of Gilead In order to enlarge their borders.
>>
>> I wonder if speaking that way about Isis or the Assyrians we are
>> forgetting
>> our own atrocities
>> . Christians, Jews, Roman, they were warcriminals as well and etablished
>> their reigns with terror.
>>
>> Ana
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Alan Sondheim <sondheim at panix.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>       ISIS prehistory
>>
>>       http://www.alansondheim.org/damnthem2.png
>>
>>       The Assyrians publicized their atrocities in reports and
>>       illustrations for propaganda purposes. In the tenth and ninth
>>       centuries BCE, official inscriptions told of cruelty to those
>>       captured. Most were killed or blinded; others were impaled on
>>       stakes around city walls as a warning. The bodies were
>>       mutilated; heads, hands, and even lower lips were cut off so
>>       that counting the dead would be easier. These horrifying
>>       illustrations, texts, and reliefs were designed to frighten the
>>       population into submission.
>>
>>       [...] When surrounding the capital city and shouting to the
>>       people inside failed, the Assyrians' next tactic was to select
>>       one or more small cities to attack, usually ones that could be
>>       easily conquered. Then the Assyrians committed extreme acts of
>>       cruelty to show how the entire region would be treated if the
>>       inhabitants refused to surrender peacefully. Houses were looted
>>       and burned to the round, and the people were murdered, raped,
>>       mutilated, or enslaved - acts all vividly portrayed in the
>>       Assyrian stone reliefs and royal inscriptions in the palaces.
>>       The Assyrian troops regarded looting and rape of a conquered
>>       city as partial compensation. [...]
>>
>>       The annals of Assurnasirpal II vividly described such tactics:
>>
>>       "In strife and conflict I besieged (and) conquered the city. I
>>       felled 3,000 of their fighting men with the sword. I carried off
>>       prisoners, possessions, oxen, (and) cattle from them. I burnt
>>       many captives from them. I captured many troops alive: I cut off
>>       of some their arms (and) hands; I cut off of others their noses,
>>       ears, (and) extremities. I gouged out the eyes of many troops. I
>>       made one pile of the living (and) one of the heads. I hung their
>>       heads on tress around the city. I burnt their adolescent boys
>>       (and) girls. I razed, destroyed, burned (and) consumed the
>>       city."
>>
>>       This type of "psychological" warfare was especially convincing,
>>       and the inhabitants, "overwhelmed by the fearful splendor of the
>>       god Assur," surrendered.
>>
>>
>>       ----
>>       From Daily Life in Ancient Mesopotamia, Karen Rhea Nemet-Nejat,
>>       Hendrickson, 2008
>>
>>       _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with
>> your
>> eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always
>> long
>> to return.
>> ? Leonardo da Vinci
>>
>>
>>
> ==
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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with
your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always
long to return.
— Leonardo da Vinci
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