[NetBehaviour] dismal news: After the Last Sky

helen varley jamieson helen at creative-catalyst.com
Mon Aug 31 11:44:31 CEST 2015


i agree that this current crisis has been coming for a long time; many
things have contributed to it, & events probably could have played out
in various different ways, but the combination of environmental and
political factors have been leading towards this for a long time. i
agree with alan that ISIS, or something similar, was always going to emerge.

i'm happy that at least in germany (where i live as a privileged migrant
who chooses to be here & who can go back home whenever i want) there
seems to be the political will to help. 800,000 people is a lot for any
country to absorb in a short space of time, but let's not forget that
countries such as jordan and turkey already have millions of refugees
and much less resources to support them.

i don't know what the solution(s) might be, i don't think there is a
short-term answer. it must be possible to do more to resolve the
situation in syria, but i don't believe that more war is the answer & i
know that the problem isn't just syria; it's a whole chain of problems &
we are all implicated in it in one way or another.

but in the meantime, the least we can do is provide shelter & support to
people who have had to flee their homes; & i'm glad that most people in
germany want to do this.

h x

On 31/08/15 6:46 32AM, Alan Sondheim wrote:
>
>
> Perhaps the difference is that I think ISIS would have emerged in
> spite of everything; if you look at the relationship between climate
> change and that area of the world, you find it running out of water,
> food, combined w/ population increase; all of this plays a major role
> there. The migrants are fleeing ISIS but they're also fleeing
> starvation; it's also important to recognize of course that Wahhabism
> plays a major role here, and its predates the "big responsibility" you
> describe.
>
> Pandora's box, I think, would have been opened in any case.
>
> And in any case, the issue, _now_ is - what is to be done - and
> Johannes points out the incredible difficulty here; if Uruguay has 65
> emigrants (I thinkyou mentioned that, not sure?), that doesn't touch
> on the problem at all.
>
> Suggestions anyone?
>
> Thanks, Ana, for the discussion!
>
> On Sun, 30 Aug 2015, Ana Valdes wrote:
>
>> Alan you misread me. I said for the poor youngsters recruited from
>> the poorest and ignorant ISIS is a revenge against everything who
>> they feels has been stolen from them. I have some Muslim friends in
>> Sweden who have lost their sons and daughters to ISIS, they felt
>> never accepted in Sweden, ISIS lure them with belonging. people are
>> not only fleeing ISIS, they are fleeing Assad bombings of his own ppl
>> too. And the Afgans are fleeing both their government and the
>> Talibans. And U.S. and England has a big responsibility on it. When
>> they toppled Saddam and Ghadaffi they opened the box of Pandora. From
>> the box came out ISIS and many others. Ana
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Aug 30, 2015, at 11:06 PM, Alan Sondheim <sondheim at panix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a very different view of all of this, especially ISIS, which
>>> you seem to be excusing. So I assume that you think the refugees
>>> fleeing ISIS somehow are also giving up on dignity? Or you think
>>> that dignity comes with heads on a fence? I can't discuss this any
>>> more; I hesitated to post in the first place. You might also say
>>> that U.S. racism thrives in poverty and ignorance, that the right
>>> agrees with you that there are bad leaders and foreign colonizers
>>> (from the rest of the Americas), the right then stands for dignity
>>> and stubbonness? And there's a HUGE difference between India and the
>>> killing and fleeing of hundreds of thousands in the mid-East and
>>> Africa. A HUGE difference which you are apparently blind to.
>>>
>>> Apologies for my anger.
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 30 Aug 2015, Ana Valdes wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Alan ISiS thrives in poverty and ignorance. When you live in a
>>>> country ravaged by bad leaders and foreign colonizers ISIS stand
>>>> for dignity and stubbornness. When a council in India condemn two
>>>> girl teenagers to be raped because their brother eloped with a
>>>> married woman I think ISIS has not the monopole of violence and
>>>> bestiality. Sadly Ana
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 30, 2015, at 9:06 PM, Alan Sondheim <sondheim at panix.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the situation's incredibly complicated and not helped by
>>>>> "real guilt" or blame constantly placed, as if righteous anger
>>>>> does more than express itself; it's interesting that ISIS isn't
>>>>> even mentioned in this discussion, as if the entire situation is
>>>>> the result of neoliberal manipulation, nothing on the ground, the
>>>>> peoples in Syria for example might be complicit as best. And this
>>>>> just isn't true. Nor is it going to be the case that people will
>>>>> stop warfare, rich or poor - ISIS isn't really all that rich and
>>>>> they will continue; nor is it the case that the refugees are all
>>>>> farmers etc. - the issue is What is to be done? And this requires
>>>>> work everywhere by all parties. I don't excuse capital, neolib, or
>>>>> fundamentalist Islam for that matter; the history is horrible;
>>>>> it's terrible the US is trying to get rid of immigrants here and
>>>>> now - it's obscene - it's also obscene that Assad is killing "his"
>>>>> own country in the name of who knows what. Johannes points out the
>>>>> intrac
> t
>> a
>>> b
>>>> le - how
>>>> does a country absorb close to a million people? What's always
>>>> overlooked, I'm guilty of it more than anyone, is the inertia of
>>>> human beings - the revolution I don't think is coming in the
>>>> slightest; capital isn't going to give up capital; warfare isn't
>>>> going away; relgions aren't suddenly going to go tolerant. Don't
>>>> forget a LOT of this is driven by both overpopulation and global
>>>> warming - the dought in the mideast is worse than that in the U.S.
>>>> west for example - people everywhere are running out of space and
>>>> food. I would hope in Europe the situation might revolve around an
>>>> EU effort to see the problem as a totality, not X- refugees in
>>>> Germany, Y- in France, etc. etc. I would also HOPE TO HELL that the
>>>> United States (here I spell US out) would open itself to taking in
>>>> refugees as well - but look at our history - even the Jews were
>>>> turned away during WWII.
>>>>>
>>>>> We can't keep going over our local psychogeographies, I think, no
>>>>> matter how much they inform us; being a Jew, losing people in the
>>>>> Holocaust, for me is _meaningless_ in this regard, not in terms
>>>>> obviously of mourning what transpired - but this very thing
>>>>> perhaps suffocates an ability to see a bit clearer - again - What
>>>>> is to be done? And why is everyone blamed but ISIS? And isn't this
>>>>> kind of a problematic colonization itself - how dare we blame them
>>>>> for anything?
>>>>>
>>>>> - Alan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ==
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>
> ==
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-- 
helen varley jamieson
helen at creative-catalyst.com <mailto:helen at creative-catalyst.com>
http://www.creative-catalyst.com
http://www.upstage.org.nz

 

/We have a situation!/ Rio de Janeiro, 7 November 2015
<http://www.wehaveasituation.net/?page_id=1222>

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