[NetBehaviour] Solutionism Re: An interview with Geert Lovink

Sat Oct 3 20:10:35 CEST 2015

Or GNU social[1]. I can host us a node.

-Rob

[1] - I'm a member of the project and therefore biased. ;-)

On 3 October 2015 03:34:36 GMT-07:00, Patrick Lichty <pl at voyd.com> wrote:
>Actually, while not a solution, I think a Diaspora node would be a
>great
>experiment.
>
>On 10/3/15, 2:05 PM, "aharon" <aha at aharonic.net> wrote:
>
>>Hiyas,
>>
>>Very interesting quick mapping of possibilities, Rob + Patrick -
>Cheers!
>>
>>Had some failed attempts linked with mailinglist and web oriented self
>>hosted "solutions"..
>>
>>* Bridge between a mailinglist where each post becomes a blog-post
>that is
>>in turn being published on a twitter-like platform (old identica, can
>be
>>done nowadays with gnu-social).
>>Problem was plurality of possible triggers - via email, blog, identica
>-
>>made it fun but hard for people to follow content.
>>
>>* Bridge between drupal and mailinglist. That was done via mailinglist
>and
>>drupal signup page. So when people registered in either, they were
>>registering in both.
>>The idea was that in this case, people could post to either list
>and/or a
>>drupal forum. These were interchangeable. So posts, replies etc were
>>published on both and people could use which ever tool.
>>That didn't catch up much for a few bugs and more importantly, people
>seem
>>a bit confused by the multiple platforms. Hard to tell whether a
>bugless
>>system would have caught up.
>>
>>* A meta messaging system "MEM" where users could direct messages
>between
>>tools. e.g. Say Blooby fancied email and sent stuff, Zlooby could
>receive
>>the message as a txt or a blog post, or whatever they fancied at that
>>time.
>>People could alter message retrieval as they fancied.
>>People could send stuff as they fancied.
>>The system itself MEM was centralised, but people's tools were as they
>>might want. All that needed was api registration.
>>
>>(For me the interesting bit was that each activity was to create a
>string
>>that could be expressed in audio and lighting intensity/colour
>>instructions. Hence the networking was evolving visceral materials..)
>>
>>Anyhow, MEM's funding went boom..
>>
>>* A different approach entirely is that which we took in the recent
>>SafeShare.
>>A network for a very specific community, developed with the community
>>members in bucfp.org ) The development through workshops that teased
>out
>>requirementts, offered possible solutions and through usage feedback,
>we
>>opted for temporary solutions to begin with. The idea is that this
>will
>>assist in initial usage and as the system is used more, we could alter
>it
>>later. (perhaps even via more similar workshops if needed..)
>>
>>Not sure this is applicable here, because there is much broader
>>participation.
>>However it might be an idea to use the need for a change as an opening
>to
>>try various solutions live with the people involved? A sort of
>>evolutionary approach?
>>
>>Indeed, I wonder how a change in the system might actually occur? A
>>changing day?
>>
>>Apologies for too many questions possibly.. Hopefully some are apt.
>>
>>Probably the gist of this is that it seems altering the communication
>>system and platforms can be a tricky process and it would be a shame
>to
>>lose people as a result.
>>
>>Cheers and a fab weekend!
>>
>>aharon
>>xx
>>
>>PS
>>Any thoughts re a diaspora node..?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Sat, October 3, 2015 07:09, Patrick Lichty wrote:
>>> Rob,
>>> I think that as usual, you¹re brilliant.  The metric tracking idea
>seems
>>> OK, maybe, but might be a bit of a red herring.
>>>
>>>
>>> All:
>>> I think that Furtherfield is at a pivotal moment similar to the
>>> institutionalization moment of Rhizome, where it asked; ³How can we
>have
>>> maximum imapact/reach, etc?²
>>>
>>> I know I¹m conflating a LOT of terms here, but I think my core
>argument
>>> is sound.  I realize that the impetus here is to bring FF goodness
>to
>>> larger groups and spread light in the jungle of other art
>communities.
>>> However,
>>> a few things to consider.
>>>
>>> So, what happened?  In my conversation with the execs there over
>time,
>>> There was an admission that the lists were forumized to facilitate
>>> institutional discourse, and Michael Connor even admitted to not
>>>focusing
>>> on community, and with the cutbacks, I¹ll be curious to see what
>Zach
>>> does.
>>>
>>> Secondly, regarding bridge-building - this relates to serving inter
>>> community needs. An extreme example is my conversation with Cao Fei
>>>during
>>>  the building of RMB City in Second Life.  She had no idea of the
>>> necessity for community engagement before our conversation; she just
>>> assumed that people would know who she was and flock to the servers.
>>>What
>>> she didn¹t realize was that Sl and the Artworld are totally
>different
>>> birds.
>>>
>>> Furherfield is in a much better position in that the ³new media²
>(sic)
>>> community, as shown in my (hopefully) upcoming late review of ISEA
>that
>>>the
>>> Contemporary and the Tech Media artworlds are less divergent than
>>> ever, probably (urrr�) thanks to the postinternets.  ISEA 2015
>showed
>>>that
>>>  the art historical traditions are concurrent at this time, and
>piercing
>>> the membrane might be relatively easy.
>>>
>>> Back to Rhizome.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think that Rhizome¹s path was a Faustian bargain.  Its decentering
>>>from
>>>  the community model, IMO, is coming to roost as the institutions
>are
>>> giving it less resources (and isn¹t it even outside of the NuMu
>now?),
>>> and there isn¹t a community except for the young blue-chips to rely
>on.
>>> First, withFF¹s punk roots, I doubt that many of the pitfalls that
>beset
>>> R
>>> will hit FF.  And there is a valid question - how does FF continue
>to
>>> evolve without neglecting its core values? Good question.
>>>
>>> And I¹ll be selfish in that although I am not terribly active, the
>list
>>> is my main umbilical to the community at this time, and I want it to
>>>stay a
>>> list.  I¹mnot against outreaches, don¹t think that the list should
>just
>>>be
>>> a haven for hoary New Media artists, but on the other hand, I feel
>that
>>> the list has a good community that is pretty healthy.  I also think
>>>there
>>>  are good models like Nettime that are excellent cases to defend the
>>> form, and�
>>>
>>> For Powers¹ Sake, The Well???
>>>
>>>
>>> There¹s is a case for the power of Ur-Forums and their continued
>power.
>>> My buds Lebkowsky and Sterling rock the cybersphere every year from
>a
>>> anciently formatted mail thread there every year through The State
>of
>>>the
>>> World every year.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think FF has a precious resource in its list, and I¹m not in favor
>of
>>> much more than incremental change.  The axiom of that which evolves
>dies
>>> doesn¹t necessarily fit here, as it¹s a matter of community
>investiture
>>> rather than logistics.  Looking at the list institutionally rather
>than
>>> socially is a salient debate to have, and I don¹t want to lose the
>sense
>>> of community I have here.  This is one of the last informal venues I
>>>have
>>>  to just shoot the shit, as it were, and I think it¹s one of the few
>>> where you can in this format.
>>>
>>> My .02 AED...
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/3/15, 9:01 AM, "Rob Myers" <rob at robmyers.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 02/10/15 04:03 AM, ruth catlow wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Furtherfield HQ (first think Google and then try to imagine the
>>>>> opposite)
>>>>
>>>> An open-ended and non-enclosed structure with no basketball courts
>or
>>>> free candy vending machines?
>>>>
>>>>> Two issues
>>>>> 1) the cost and time associated with strategising, consulting,
>>>>> designing, planning and remunerating all involved, for their
>efforts
>>>>> while: future-proofing community infrastructure, caring for the
>>>>> archive/database. We have had some really very good and generous
>>>>> support from a number of people to help us understand what the
>process
>>>>> might be, but the work still needs doing...and all risks
>mitigated!
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) connected to the above - maintaining the connections we all
>have,
>>>>> while inviting in new and diverse (in age, background,
>device-loyalty,
>>>>>  ethnicity) people.
>>>>
>>>> There are a few approaches, with different affordances and costs
>>>> (economic and political).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Yay Walled Gardens!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Use Medium for publishing articles, hosted Discourse for
>mail/boards,
>>>> and Slack for co-ordination/chat.
>>>>
>>>> Cost: 100USD/month plus your soul.
>>>> Demographic: Current.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2. All Zuck All The Time
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Use Facebook Notes for publishing articles, Facebook pages for
>>>> discussion, and Facebook messaging for co-ordination/chat.
>>>>
>>>> Cost: Zero, plus the souls of all humanity.
>>>> Demographic: Previous.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3. Current Free Software
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Use Jekyll for publishing (mediated via GitLabs or at a pinch
>GitHub)
>>>> [TODO: comment system], self-hosted Discourse or Groupserver for
>>>> mail/boards, and an existing GNU social install or irc for
>co-ord/chat.
>>>>
>>>> Cost: As much as hosting costs.
>>>> Demographic: current.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4. Hosted Free Software
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Use Wordpress for publishing, see if lurk.org will host
>Netbehaviour on
>>>>  their Groupserver install, and use an existing GNU social install
>or
>>>> irc for co-ord/chat.
>>>>
>>>> Cost: As much as the services cost, look for donations.
>>>> Demographic: Almost current.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For any self-hosted or donated services, stick them behind
>Cloudflare.
>>>> Good for DDOS and ssl, bad for centralization.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Choice of platform is to a degree choice of audience, cultural
>context
>>>> and politics. Not in a technologically deterministic sense but in
>the
>>>> sense that different book publishers or record labels are. Change
>the
>>>> system, exploit the system, or buck the system?
>>>>
>>>> - Rob.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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>
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