[NetBehaviour] Solutionism Re: An interview with Geert Lovink

Annie Abrahams bram.org at gmail.com
Mon Oct 5 13:07:37 CEST 2015


Hi Ruth, just you  ...
I think it might be a good idea to set up a meeting with those who want to
continue this conversation. Where? That's up to Ruth and Marc I think. I'll
come whereever they go. (and then I decided to write to you only Ruth)
I want to be bothered less and less with testing new things, but if it's
important, like staying connected to furtherfield, I will make an effort.
It's a political decision and I think you should decide wether to follow
Randall's adobe or Rob's suggestion (the last one makes me afraid, bucause
most things Rob proposes are complicated - but if he could make it "easy" I
guess it would be fine and a nice experiment.
I can also understand it if you don't want to have such an online-live
conversation now. Anyway my volunteering to be a "host" on the mailinglist
stays, just tell me who and when to introduce ... (I could also ask others
to be hosts, but I guess it would be better to wait until the situation of
where you will go will be a bit clearer) most important question maybe Who
wants to be actively involved?

bye bye
Annie

I'll have to be bothered with testing etc, because I'll have to find a new
streaming interface (testing combination of opentok (is this relaiable? - I
don't ask you Ruth :)) and openbroadcasting, and then find a strong
server). maybe in january we will try to make it a common project with
OUDEIS., maybe


On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 12:41 PM, ruth catlow <ruth.catlow at furtherfield.org>
wrote:

> Great point and idea Aharon!
>
> >Indeed, I wonder how a change in the system might actually occur? A
> changing day?
>
> Right now- I find myself favouring the last thing anyone writes: )
>
> Perhaps we could set up a time to discuss via live chat or google hangouts or somesuch with anyone interested.
>
> :)R
>
>
> On 03/10/15 11:34, Patrick Lichty wrote:
>
> Actually, while not a solution, I think a Diaspora node would be a great
> experiment.
>
> On 10/3/15, 2:05 PM, "aharon" <aha at aharonic.net> <aha at aharonic.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hiyas,
>
> Very interesting quick mapping of possibilities, Rob + Patrick - Cheers!
>
> Had some failed attempts linked with mailinglist and web oriented self
> hosted "solutions"..
>
> * Bridge between a mailinglist where each post becomes a blog-post that is
> in turn being published on a twitter-like platform (old identica, can be
> done nowadays with gnu-social).
> Problem was plurality of possible triggers - via email, blog, identica -
> made it fun but hard for people to follow content.
>
> * Bridge between drupal and mailinglist. That was done via mailinglist and
> drupal signup page. So when people registered in either, they were
> registering in both.
> The idea was that in this case, people could post to either list and/or a
> drupal forum. These were interchangeable. So posts, replies etc were
> published on both and people could use which ever tool.
> That didn't catch up much for a few bugs and more importantly, people seem
> a bit confused by the multiple platforms. Hard to tell whether a bugless
> system would have caught up.
>
> * A meta messaging system "MEM" where users could direct messages between
> tools. e.g. Say Blooby fancied email and sent stuff, Zlooby could receive
> the message as a txt or a blog post, or whatever they fancied at that
> time.
> People could alter message retrieval as they fancied.
> People could send stuff as they fancied.
> The system itself MEM was centralised, but people's tools were as they
> might want. All that needed was api registration.
>
> (For me the interesting bit was that each activity was to create a string
> that could be expressed in audio and lighting intensity/colour
> instructions. Hence the networking was evolving visceral materials..)
>
> Anyhow, MEM's funding went boom..
>
> * A different approach entirely is that which we took in the recent
> SafeShare.
> A network for a very specific community, developed with the community
> members in bucfp.org ) The development through workshops that teased out
> requirementts, offered possible solutions and through usage feedback, we
> opted for temporary solutions to begin with. The idea is that this will
> assist in initial usage and as the system is used more, we could alter it
> later. (perhaps even via more similar workshops if needed..)
>
> Not sure this is applicable here, because there is much broader
> participation.
> However it might be an idea to use the need for a change as an opening to
> try various solutions live with the people involved? A sort of
> evolutionary approach?
>
> Indeed, I wonder how a change in the system might actually occur? A
> changing day?
>
> Apologies for too many questions possibly.. Hopefully some are apt.
>
> Probably the gist of this is that it seems altering the communication
> system and platforms can be a tricky process and it would be a shame to
> lose people as a result.
>
> Cheers and a fab weekend!
>
> aharon
> xx
>
> PS
> Any thoughts re a diaspora node..?
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, October 3, 2015 07:09, Patrick Lichty wrote:
>
> Rob,
> I think that as usual, you¹re brilliant.  The metric tracking idea seems
> OK, maybe, but might be a bit of a red herring.
>
>
> All:
> I think that Furtherfield is at a pivotal moment similar to the
> institutionalization moment of Rhizome, where it asked; ³How can we have
> maximum imapact/reach, etc?²
>
> I know I¹m conflating a LOT of terms here, but I think my core argument
> is sound.  I realize that the impetus here is to bring FF goodness to
> larger groups and spread light in the jungle of other art communities.
> However,
> a few things to consider.
>
> So, what happened?  In my conversation with the execs there over time,
> There was an admission that the lists were forumized to facilitate
> institutional discourse, and Michael Connor even admitted to not
> focusing
> on community, and with the cutbacks, I¹ll be curious to see what Zach
> does.
>
> Secondly, regarding bridge-building - this relates to serving inter
> community needs. An extreme example is my conversation with Cao Fei
> during
>  the building of RMB City in Second Life.  She had no idea of the
> necessity for community engagement before our conversation; she just
> assumed that people would know who she was and flock to the servers.
> What
> she didn¹t realize was that Sl and the Artworld are totally different
> birds.
>
> Furherfield is in a much better position in that the ³new media² (sic)
> community, as shown in my (hopefully) upcoming late review of ISEA that
> the
> Contemporary and the Tech Media artworlds are less divergent than
> ever, probably (urrr�) thanks to the postinternets.  ISEA 2015 showed
> that
>  the art historical traditions are concurrent at this time, and piercing
> the membrane might be relatively easy.
>
> Back to Rhizome.
>
>
> I think that Rhizome¹s path was a Faustian bargain.  Its decentering
> from
>  the community model, IMO, is coming to roost as the institutions are
> giving it less resources (and isn¹t it even outside of the NuMu now?),
> and there isn¹t a community except for the young blue-chips to rely on.
> First, withFF¹s punk roots, I doubt that many of the pitfalls that beset
> R
> will hit FF.  And there is a valid question - how does FF continue to
> evolve without neglecting its core values? Good question.
>
> And I¹ll be selfish in that although I am not terribly active, the list
> is my main umbilical to the community at this time, and I want it to
> stay a
> list.  I¹mnot against outreaches, don¹t think that the list should just
> be
> a haven for hoary New Media artists, but on the other hand, I feel that
> the list has a good community that is pretty healthy.  I also think
> there
>  are good models like Nettime that are excellent cases to defend the
> form, and�
>
> For Powers¹ Sake, The Well???
>
>
> There¹s is a case for the power of Ur-Forums and their continued power.
> My buds Lebkowsky and Sterling rock the cybersphere every year from a
> anciently formatted mail thread there every year through The State of
> the
> World every year.
>
>
> I think FF has a precious resource in its list, and I¹m not in favor of
> much more than incremental change.  The axiom of that which evolves dies
> doesn¹t necessarily fit here, as it¹s a matter of community investiture
> rather than logistics.  Looking at the list institutionally rather than
> socially is a salient debate to have, and I don¹t want to lose the sense
> of community I have here.  This is one of the last informal venues I
> have
>  to just shoot the shit, as it were, and I think it¹s one of the few
> where you can in this format.
>
> My .02 AED...
>
>
> On 10/3/15, 9:01 AM, "Rob Myers" <rob at robmyers.org> <rob at robmyers.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 02/10/15 04:03 AM, ruth catlow wrote:
>
>
> Furtherfield HQ (first think Google and then try to imagine the
> opposite)
>
> An open-ended and non-enclosed structure with no basketball courts or
> free candy vending machines?
>
>
> Two issues
> 1) the cost and time associated with strategising, consulting,
> designing, planning and remunerating all involved, for their efforts
> while: future-proofing community infrastructure, caring for the
> archive/database. We have had some really very good and generous
> support from a number of people to help us understand what the process
> might be, but the work still needs doing...and all risks mitigated!
>
> 2) connected to the above - maintaining the connections we all have,
> while inviting in new and diverse (in age, background, device-loyalty,
>  ethnicity) people.
>
> There are a few approaches, with different affordances and costs
> (economic and political).
>
>
> 1. Yay Walled Gardens!
>
>
> Use Medium for publishing articles, hosted Discourse for mail/boards,
> and Slack for co-ordination/chat.
>
> Cost: 100USD/month plus your soul.
> Demographic: Current.
>
>
> 2. All Zuck All The Time
>
>
> Use Facebook Notes for publishing articles, Facebook pages for
> discussion, and Facebook messaging for co-ordination/chat.
>
> Cost: Zero, plus the souls of all humanity.
> Demographic: Previous.
>
>
> 3. Current Free Software
>
>
> Use Jekyll for publishing (mediated via GitLabs or at a pinch GitHub)
> [TODO: comment system], self-hosted Discourse or Groupserver for
> mail/boards, and an existing GNU social install or irc for co-ord/chat.
>
> Cost: As much as hosting costs.
> Demographic: current.
>
>
> 4. Hosted Free Software
>
>
> Use Wordpress for publishing, see if lurk.org will host Netbehaviour on
>  their Groupserver install, and use an existing GNU social install or
> irc for co-ord/chat.
>
> Cost: As much as the services cost, look for donations.
> Demographic: Almost current.
>
>
>
> For any self-hosted or donated services, stick them behind Cloudflare.
> Good for DDOS and ssl, bad for centralization.
>
>
> Choice of platform is to a degree choice of audience, cultural context
> and politics. Not in a technologically deterministic sense but in the
> sense that different book publishers or record labels are. Change the
> system, exploit the system, or buck the system?
>
> - Rob.
>
>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> Co-founder Co-director
> Furtherfield
>
> www.furtherfield.org
>
> +44 (0) 77370 02879
> Meeting calendar - http://bit.ly/1NgeLce
> Bitcoin Address 197BBaXa6M9PtHhhNTQkuHh1pVJA8RrJ2i
>
> Furtherfield is the UK's leading organisation for art shows, labs, &
> debates
> around critical questions in art and technology, since 1997
>
> Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company limited by Guarantee
> registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
> Registered business address: Ballard Newman, Apex House, Grand Arcade,
> Tally Ho Corner, London N12 0EH.
>
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-- 

*26 09 14h*  *vivre entre – from estranger to e-stranger*, une
*conférence performéefestival Magdalena, * La Bulle Bleue
<http://www.labullebleue.fr/#%21/magdalenaproject>, 285 rue du Mas de
Prunet, Montpellier
aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/


*besides, *online performances *On Object Agency *
with Martina Ruhsam
*archives* (text, script, video, images)
bram.org/besides/
*Marc Garrett* interviewed me for the *Choose Your Muse* series on
*Furtherfield*
furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams
<http://www.furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams>
<https://aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/08/13/ed-atkins-remediating/>


<http://turbulence.org/commissions/besides/>
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