[NetBehaviour] if from Nürnberg ness?

aharon misnom at spell.blue
Wed Jun 21 00:03:14 CEST 2017

Thanks Alan.

Ofcourse these trials are not playful. Well, not in my mind at any rate.

However, the nurnberg trials have, i think, a language that links a certain kind of way to imagine imagination between the perpetrators of the holocaust and their judges. (eg the placement of the trials in nurnberg was explicitly linked with the nazi rallies.)
For me one of the many horrors of the holocaust comes from a short piece of writing by an Auschwitz survivor where its outline how they felt after being saved. The feeling of great pain and for that person on an ongoing fashion - that nothing has changed. Nothing was learned. Therefore perhaps indeed a holocaust, or a version of it, can occur at any given time... (the person who wrote them lines ended up killing themselves, as far as i recall.. One of the witnesses in Eichmann's trials..)
zizek talks at times about the in-ability to learn from something like the holocaust by pointing out that indeed such an event has no educational value. Brutality is no way to teach people indeed.

Though perhaps when time comes into it, there are ways to learn despite all the brutality? 

Cheers and all the best!

the "wonder" in the language is that of imagination, that of an If X? and If Y? rather than that of stuff being full of wondrous owe, etc.. 

June 20 2017 8:58 PM, "Alan Sondheim" <sondheim at panix.com> wrote:
> When I was 11-12, I read the Nurenberg War Trials volumes on the medical cases. I'm Jewish, there
> were relatives who died under the Nazis. The medical cases were something else, something more
> brutal if that can be believed. The volumes had photographs. I can't imagine anything but a kind of
> brutality and infliction of pain that seemed and seems as bad as anything in the world. For me
> there's nothing playful about those trials. I've been haunted by the images/texts since then (for
> example a Jew in an airtight chamber, the air slowly evacuated, what happens). For me and others I
> know, there's no wonder and the language of sensations ends in nothing but anguish and darkness.
> There are issues of bearing witness.
> Solzhenitsyn is useful here. http://www.alansondheim.org/lightattheend.mp4
> Maybe I'm the wrong one for this work, in which case of course apologies.
> Best, Alan
> On Tue, 20 Jun 2017, aharon wrote:
>> Hiyas,
>> Hope this finds you well indeed!
>> The following text is from a language - if N?rnberg-Ness - that has began to evolve and am going to
>> focus upon on Thursday. If anyone fancy evolving this too - it's yours! :)
>> if N?rnberg-Ness ?
>> if N?rnberg-Mess-Ness ? ;)
>> Cheers and all the bests!
>> aharon
>> xx
>> http://itchy.5p.lt
>> -----------------
>> N?rnberg
>> ??
>> If (N?rnberg) ^ ?
>> if (NurMberg ^) ^ ?
>> if (NMbergNess ^ ) ^ ?
>> if (NMBNS ^) ?
>> if (nbs) ^ ?
>> if (NBNS)^?
>> if (NMB
>> NS
>> ) ^ ?
>> N?rnberg, as an evolving language of sensations, a wonder, a search from one's imagination?
>> N?rnberg - the sensation of N?rnberg?
>> Wagner's imagined musical theatre encountered, frictioned, by the 1930's Nazis with their own
>> imagination. A nazi imagination regarding the German historical narrative and indeed Wagner's own
>> perception.
>> Hence we get the N?rnberg rallies staged within Wagnerian-inspired theatrical architecture.
>> Since the N?rnberg rallies came to be theatrical show of Nazi propaganda, their effect upon other
>> people's psyche seems to have been such that when justice court theatrical shows of putting Nazis
>> on trials post WW2 was considered - N?rnberg seemed like an apt place. A place to close the circle
>> the Nazi imagination opened all these years ago at the beginning of the 1930's.
>> However, here, I think, we get a new friction of imaginations - > The imagination of the
>> conqueror's own "good" cause, with the imagination of court trials as bringing justice. (Justice
>> either through theatre and/or despite and in-spite of the theatricalities on show.)
>> Here, I think we collide into and with Temporal imaginations from N?rnberg.
>> The imagination about a revered person's mind - > as if they are part of a time based sequence that
>> requires embodiments that are both "out of the mind" and out of time for sharing minds'
>> imaginations. ( ie an art-linked time might be perceived as a time when we share - we link up -
>> wonders, imaginations.)
>> The imagination from the past. The imagination of present and future from how a certain past is
>> being imagined. (Both nazis and allied forces took an imagined past and tried to dress it up with
>> bodies that suited them. The nazis dressed up Both Wagner and German mythology, and the allied
>> forces dressed up their imagination of and from the N?rnberg rallies.)
>> The imagination from embodiment. > As if the temporarily of imagination requires a body that is
>> "outside" of whatever was imagined?
>> I might be imagining someone actually reading these lines - however, isn't this very imagination
>> enough regardless of whether someone is actually reading or even going to read this?
>> Where is that Body?
>> In many ways, I think, for example in how a line is being structured. In the fact that even if no
>> one will ever read this, I keep editing. So if you happened to read this, this is my imagination
>> even if you have never read it. >
>> Similarly, I think, the imagination from Wagner, the Nazis and the allies perhaps mistreated itself
>> at the very point that people opted for embodiments that are "outside" the imagination?
>> Here perhaps there's a meta collision from imaginations:
>> The imagination in general and its nature, colliding with imagination that imagines the nature of
>> imagination to be in a great need for embodiments outside. The imagination in general collides with
>> a dualistic perception of imagination itself?
>>> ------------------------------------------------
>> I thought, initially, to go and do N?rnberg in the city of N?rnberg by visiting relevant sites,
>> picking up their imaginary characters into a language.
>> However, after a while, it seemed rather limited and limiting - to be focused on N?rnberg as a sort
>> of geography rather than a practice of a language in and of itself.
>> Since the name N?rnberg is with an N in german minds and M in english - i thought to find another
>> similar place to begin with. Step in Kuln, or Cologne..?
>> To get the language of imagination in link to time and place - as well as of itself (ie how one
>> might imagine themselves) - It seems that perhaps to begin with the language can do with guide
>> books.
>> Say a guidebook from around 100 years ago.
>> https://ia902205.us.archive.org/13/items/rhineincludingb00firgoog/rhineincludingb00firgoog.pdf
>> How did it imagine Cologne? How did it imagine itself? Lets collide that with imagining the places
>> - some of them - nowadays, and we get a sense of N?rnberg ?
>> an
>> if (NMbergNess ^ ) ^ ?
>> an
>> if (NMB
>> NS
>> ) ^ ?
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -----------------------------
>> * Since we are talking about things to do with Nazis, and some of the language here treats them as
>> thinking, feeling, sensing and cultural beings - human beings - perhaps it might be cool to note
>> that this has nothing, NADA, ZILCH in terms of support agreement and tolerance for Any, Anytime and
>> Anything they have done and that people are still doing with nazism in mind.
>> Indeed, I hope some of the concerns here are to do with critique of stuff people keep doing Without
>> Nazism in mind - that is, in fact, slightly pretty much like that ideology in terms of operation
>> rather than explicit meanings.
>> _______________________________________________
>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> NetBehaviour at netbehaviour.org
>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> New CD:- LIMIT:
> http://www.publiceyesore.com/catalog.php?pg=3&pit=138
> email archive http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org
> web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 718-813-3285
> current text http://www.alansondheim.org/uq.txt
> _______________________________________________
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour at netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour

More information about the NetBehaviour mailing list