[NetBehaviour] if from Nürnberg ness?
misnom at spell.blue
Wed Jun 21 08:23:57 CEST 2017
I can not recall the name of the writer.. Apologies.
I seem to remember they altered their name in various ways. I think they incorporated their tattooed number as part of the name.(?)
Interesting re performers.. I think there are accounts by various musicians regarding the interval they have experienced between themselves and the music they were made to play/perform. (specially to do with Wagner's tunes)
Yes. I think we are going through a period of harshness between people and other beings/elements..?
Yes. I hope to meet up in london! Will be great. Hope to be back from continental europe before you leave london.. :)
Hope you have much fun in london - it has a lot to give and provide.
Ciao and all the best!
June 21 2017 12:08 AM, "Alan Sondheim" <sondheim at panix.com> wrote:
> Perhaps nothing has changed, nothing has been learned - because learning and changing are already
> on another t(r)ack? In the U.S. Trump and racism as you know are legitimized - after so many
> decades of work against racism etc. Now we're veering back into what I think of as barbarism.
> Perhaps what you're doing can be tured into itself as well? Examining and even undermining the
> grounds of the investigation?
> Just thinking here. Who was the writer? I became interested recently in performers in the female
> orchestra of Auschwitz (who later were sent to Bergen-Belsen); they also testified (those who
> survived). What is music or art or resistance or the somatic effects under those conditions?
> Are you in London? Perhaps we can meet up? And let us know how everything you're doing plays out..
> Best! Alan
> On Tue, 20 Jun 2017, aharon wrote:
>> Thanks Alan.
>> Ofcourse these trials are not playful. Well, not in my mind at any rate.
>> However, the nurnberg trials have, i think, a language that links a certain kind of way to imagine
>> imagination between the perpetrators of the holocaust and their judges. (eg the placement of the
>> trials in nurnberg was explicitly linked with the nazi rallies.)
>> For me one of the many horrors of the holocaust comes from a short piece of writing by an Auschwitz
>> survivor where its outline how they felt after being saved. The feeling of great pain and for that
>> person on an ongoing fashion - that nothing has changed. Nothing was learned. Therefore perhaps
>> indeed a holocaust, or a version of it, can occur at any given time... (the person who wrote them
>> lines ended up killing themselves, as far as i recall.. One of the witnesses in Eichmann's
>> zizek talks at times about the in-ability to learn from something like the holocaust by pointing
>> out that indeed such an event has no educational value. Brutality is no way to teach people indeed.
>> Though perhaps when time comes into it, there are ways to learn despite all the brutality?
>> Cheers and all the best!
>> the "wonder" in the language is that of imagination, that of an If X? and If Y? rather than that of
>> stuff being full of wondrous owe, etc..
>> June 20 2017 8:58 PM, "Alan Sondheim" <sondheim at panix.com> wrote:
>>> When I was 11-12, I read the Nurenberg War Trials volumes on the medical cases. I'm Jewish, there
>>> were relatives who died under the Nazis. The medical cases were something else, something more
>>> brutal if that can be believed. The volumes had photographs. I can't imagine anything but a kind of
>>> brutality and infliction of pain that seemed and seems as bad as anything in the world. For me
>>> there's nothing playful about those trials. I've been haunted by the images/texts since then (for
>>> example a Jew in an airtight chamber, the air slowly evacuated, what happens). For me and others I
>>> know, there's no wonder and the language of sensations ends in nothing but anguish and darkness.
>>> There are issues of bearing witness.
>>> Solzhenitsyn is useful here. http://www.alansondheim.org/lightattheend.mp4
>>> Maybe I'm the wrong one for this work, in which case of course apologies.
>>> Best, Alan
>>> On Tue, 20 Jun 2017, aharon wrote:
>>>> Hope this finds you well indeed!
>>>> The following text is from a language - if N?rnberg-Ness - that has began to evolve and am going to
>>>> focus upon on Thursday. If anyone fancy evolving this too - it's yours! :)
>>>> if N?rnberg-Ness ?
>>>> if N?rnberg-Mess-Ness ? ;)
>>>> Cheers and all the bests!
>>>> If (N?rnberg) ^ ?
>>>> if (NurMberg ^) ^ ?
>>>> if (NMbergNess ^ ) ^ ?
>>>> if (NMBNS ^) ?
>>>> if (nbs) ^ ?
>>>> if (NBNS)^?
>>>> if (NMB
>>>> ) ^ ?
>>>> N?rnberg, as an evolving language of sensations, a wonder, a search from one's imagination?
>>>> N?rnberg - the sensation of N?rnberg?
>>>> Wagner's imagined musical theatre encountered, frictioned, by the 1930's Nazis with their own
>>>> imagination. A nazi imagination regarding the German historical narrative and indeed Wagner's own
>>>> Hence we get the N?rnberg rallies staged within Wagnerian-inspired theatrical architecture.
>>>> Since the N?rnberg rallies came to be theatrical show of Nazi propaganda, their effect upon other
>>>> people's psyche seems to have been such that when justice court theatrical shows of putting Nazis
>>>> on trials post WW2 was considered - N?rnberg seemed like an apt place. A place to close the circle
>>>> the Nazi imagination opened all these years ago at the beginning of the 1930's.
>>>> However, here, I think, we get a new friction of imaginations - > The imagination of the
>>>> conqueror's own "good" cause, with the imagination of court trials as bringing justice. (Justice
>>>> either through theatre and/or despite and in-spite of the theatricalities on show.)
>>>> Here, I think we collide into and with Temporal imaginations from N?rnberg.
>>>> The imagination about a revered person's mind - > as if they are part of a time based sequence that
>>>> requires embodiments that are both "out of the mind" and out of time for sharing minds'
>>>> imaginations. ( ie an art-linked time might be perceived as a time when we share - we link up -
>>>> wonders, imaginations.)
>>>> The imagination from the past. The imagination of present and future from how a certain past is
>>>> being imagined. (Both nazis and allied forces took an imagined past and tried to dress it up with
>>>> bodies that suited them. The nazis dressed up Both Wagner and German mythology, and the allied
>>>> forces dressed up their imagination of and from the N?rnberg rallies.)
>>>> The imagination from embodiment. > As if the temporarily of imagination requires a body that is
>>>> "outside" of whatever was imagined?
>>>> I might be imagining someone actually reading these lines - however, isn't this very imagination
>>>> enough regardless of whether someone is actually reading or even going to read this?
>>>> Where is that Body?
>>>> In many ways, I think, for example in how a line is being structured. In the fact that even if no
>>>> one will ever read this, I keep editing. So if you happened to read this, this is my imagination
>>>> even if you have never read it. >
>>>> Similarly, I think, the imagination from Wagner, the Nazis and the allies perhaps mistreated itself
>>>> at the very point that people opted for embodiments that are "outside" the imagination?
>>>> Here perhaps there's a meta collision from imaginations:
>>>> The imagination in general and its nature, colliding with imagination that imagines the nature of
>>>> imagination to be in a great need for embodiments outside. The imagination in general collides with
>>>> a dualistic perception of imagination itself?
>>>> I thought, initially, to go and do N?rnberg in the city of N?rnberg by visiting relevant sites,
>>>> picking up their imaginary characters into a language.
>>>> However, after a while, it seemed rather limited and limiting - to be focused on N?rnberg as a sort
>>>> of geography rather than a practice of a language in and of itself.
>>>> Since the name N?rnberg is with an N in german minds and M in english - i thought to find another
>>>> similar place to begin with. Step in Kuln, or Cologne..?
>>>> To get the language of imagination in link to time and place - as well as of itself (ie how one
>>>> might imagine themselves) - It seems that perhaps to begin with the language can do with guide
>>>> Say a guidebook from around 100 years ago.
>>>> How did it imagine Cologne? How did it imagine itself? Lets collide that with imagining the places
>>>> - some of them - nowadays, and we get a sense of N?rnberg ?
>>>> if (NMbergNess ^ ) ^ ?
>>>> if (NMB
>>>> ) ^ ?
>>>> * Since we are talking about things to do with Nazis, and some of the language here treats them as
>>>> thinking, feeling, sensing and cultural beings - human beings - perhaps it might be cool to note
>>>> that this has nothing, NADA, ZILCH in terms of support agreement and tolerance for Any, Anytime and
>>>> Anything they have done and that people are still doing with nazism in mind.
>>>> Indeed, I hope some of the concerns here are to do with critique of stuff people keep doing Without
>>>> Nazism in mind - that is, in fact, slightly pretty much like that ideology in terms of operation
>>>> rather than explicit meanings.
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