[NetBehaviour] Links

Alan Sondheim sondheim at panix.com
Thu Dec 5 03:11:01 CET 2019


Beautiful -
Then again, in the discussion, for me it's got to do with steering 
mechanisms and a kind of Wired magazine collocation of technological 
epiphanies. There's more than that, there's room for everything; it's when 
one or another form dominates, the problems start up. But it's all only 
music, sound, yes?

On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour wrote:

> Indeed Michael all things are a product of this world. And as such are
> inevitable. Hierarchies therein generate processes and inevitable outcomes.
> So yes, there?s great swathes of stuff to sort through. Made via machines.
> I find that type of ultra commercial music dull to listen to - people can do
> cultural studies sure, of these forms. Look good in the old ica bookshop.
> But there is so much good music and art.
> I guess if one can shine a light on political or philosophical or moral
> questions, relevances then good on you.
> I prefer to actually make music and art. Not talk about bad pop Muzak
> myself.
> Ha ha guess I always put my foot in it.
> The carbuncle of the chattering classes.
> What?s different about Grimes then? AI in music is it changing people?- of
> course it reflects back into people?s values etc.
> Corporate pop has been around a few decades no?
> Techno and beats. Beats forever.
> Forever beatific eh Alan.
> Alan on the path looked up at me
> Me on the fence
> Singing him a song
> Alan agreed with me
> About animal exploitation
> In the Prometheus show
> In the toilet on the park
> In London
> We were together
> With the bacteria teeth
> And the little statuettes
> Of bodies clinging
> I singed at Alan
> Then we talked a bit
> He went to America again
> I never saw him since
> But seen his jangling and fast runs on the saz
> And we discussed improv
> He done it twenty years longer than me
> Cos he is about 18 years my senior
> And writes a lot
> Creative and disjointed
> Knows my landlord Aharon
> Who skates and records the rumble
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my spyphone
> 
> On 4 Dec 2019, at 23:48, Michael Szpakowski <m at michaelszpakowski.org> wrote:
>
>       Maybe the question for music as it is for the network and lots
>       else should be ?what wealth of human practices would a decently
>       ordered and resourced world for everyone allow?? Often we seem to
>       critique the products of a distorted world rather than the
>       distortion itself, carts before horses...
> 
>
>       Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>       On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 11:42 pm, Michael Szpakowski
>       <m at michaelszpakowski.org> wrote:
>
>             Ah ha! Misled by my relative ignorance of the
>             specifics and the later reference to rap.. but...
>             still my point stands... we lose something if we
>             abandon wholesale physically actuated sound and the
>             fragility of the live but wholesale dismissal of new
>             musical practices is foolish, blunts our lives and
>             experiences... fiercely critical openness seems to
>             me the order of the day :)
> 
>
>             Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>             On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 9:45 pm, Rob Myers
>             <rob at robmyers.org> wrote:
>
>                   Grimes -
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Anthropocene
> 
> I?m a big fan of all three but for very different reasons.
> 
> - Rob.
> 
> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 1:13 PM, Michael Szpakowski
> <m at michaelszpakowski.org> wrote:
>       Do you mean Grime Simon? I?m unclear. I think
>       there is a big difference between a healthy
>       scepticism and nuanced discussion about how
>       tech can on occasion be ill used and the
>       dismissal of whole swathes of work...
> 
>
>       Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>       On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:36 pm, Simon
>       Mclennan via NetBehaviour
>       <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>
>             Have to weigh in in this! Grimes.
>             Sorry. Yes ? Grimes. Utterly
>             soulless product without anything
>             of cultural value to me, musical
>             or otherwise. This discussion
>             between these three entities makes
>             me yawn. It?s all about money -
>             absolutely nothing else - it?s the
>             equivalent of Smash powdered
>             potatoes - worse than that.
> These people are completely without musical
> talent - the so-name AI is less than the dirt
> under the nails of the Ed Blackwell.
> Technology is only about generating revenue.
> It does not help musicians - rap is a
> festering sore on the ass of the bourgeoisie.
> An undeniable itch - when scratched and
> cauterised momentarily it oozes some wealth
> for a tiny few participants.
> Sorry I rarely contribute to this list - and I
> dig you cats for keeping the stuff rumbling
> along the conveyor / keep it up and ? where?s my
> Jazzmaster and homemade inks....
> 
> Sent from my spyphone
> 
> On 28 Nov 2019, at 18:11, Alan Sondheim via
> NetBehaviour
> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>
>       It's definitely a discussion we
>       need to have. It reminds me of a
>       dinner I had years ago w/ Cage who
>       confirmed he criticized jazz
>       because the player worked with
>       fixed rhythms. Something gets lost
>       in these discussions; Adorno fails
>       miserably.
> Ah well... It relates to my writing
> about 'somatic ghosting' I think. And I
> always feel I have to justify myself
> (although the audience doesn't feel it)
> when I show up playing an acoustic
> guitar for example. -- Alan
> 
> On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 1:06 PM Rob
> Myers <rob at robmyers.org> wrote:
>       On 2019-11-27 7:40 p.m.,
>       Alan Sondheim wrote:
>       >> This sounds so
>       white/privileged to me, the
>       position
>       > of the listener paramount
>       for example, the relegation
>       of community to
>       > reproduction, etc. It's a
>       form of hip effacement. I
>       realize I haven't
>       > read everything HH's has
>       written, but there's a
>       fundamental difference
>       > between a drum machine and
>       a "great drummer" who came
>       from community,
>       > breathes within community,
>       and contributes to
>       community. Thinking for
>       > example of free jazz, and
>       the difficulties and
>       explorations of the great
>       > players, the relation of
>       that music to the cry, the
>       field holler, the
>       > blues, gospel musics, etc.
>
>       I think HH would agree with
>       you.
>
>       > and I keep returning to
>       white white white white
>       white and privilege.
>       There is something
>       class-bound about Grimes
>       (currently dating a
>       billionaire) and HH (whose
>       last album was their PhD
>       thesis) arguing
>       about who the future will be
>       worse for. But I suspect
>       that our own
>       reactions can be similarly
>       reduced to our respective
>       identities.
>
>       There's obviously a bigger
>       historical discussion about
>       race, technology,
>       intellectual property and
>       music that AI and "AI" are
>       just the latest
>       phase of. Drum machines
>       being prominent in rap and
>       techno and disdain
>       for them as tools may be
>       related, for example. Given
>       this, I'm genuinely
>       surprised that AI has been
>       instantly mainstreamed in
>       music in the way
>       that it seems to have. More
>       like the Fairlight than the
>       808...
>
>       - Rob.
> 
> 
> 
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