[NetBehaviour] Links
Alan Sondheim
sondheim at panix.com
Thu Dec 5 03:11:01 CET 2019
Beautiful -
Then again, in the discussion, for me it's got to do with steering
mechanisms and a kind of Wired magazine collocation of technological
epiphanies. There's more than that, there's room for everything; it's when
one or another form dominates, the problems start up. But it's all only
music, sound, yes?
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour wrote:
> Indeed Michael all things are a product of this world. And as such are
> inevitable. Hierarchies therein generate processes and inevitable outcomes.
> So yes, there?s great swathes of stuff to sort through. Made via machines.
> I find that type of ultra commercial music dull to listen to - people can do
> cultural studies sure, of these forms. Look good in the old ica bookshop.
> But there is so much good music and art.
> I guess if one can shine a light on political or philosophical or moral
> questions, relevances then good on you.
> I prefer to actually make music and art. Not talk about bad pop Muzak
> myself.
> Ha ha guess I always put my foot in it.
> The carbuncle of the chattering classes.
> What?s different about Grimes then? AI in music is it changing people?- of
> course it reflects back into people?s values etc.
> Corporate pop has been around a few decades no?
> Techno and beats. Beats forever.
> Forever beatific eh Alan.
> Alan on the path looked up at me
> Me on the fence
> Singing him a song
> Alan agreed with me
> About animal exploitation
> In the Prometheus show
> In the toilet on the park
> In London
> We were together
> With the bacteria teeth
> And the little statuettes
> Of bodies clinging
> I singed at Alan
> Then we talked a bit
> He went to America again
> I never saw him since
> But seen his jangling and fast runs on the saz
> And we discussed improv
> He done it twenty years longer than me
> Cos he is about 18 years my senior
> And writes a lot
> Creative and disjointed
> Knows my landlord Aharon
> Who skates and records the rumble
>
>
>
> Sent from my spyphone
>
> On 4 Dec 2019, at 23:48, Michael Szpakowski <m at michaelszpakowski.org> wrote:
>
> Maybe the question for music as it is for the network and lots
> else should be ?what wealth of human practices would a decently
> ordered and resourced world for everyone allow?? Often we seem to
> critique the products of a distorted world rather than the
> distortion itself, carts before horses...
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 11:42 pm, Michael Szpakowski
> <m at michaelszpakowski.org> wrote:
>
> Ah ha! Misled by my relative ignorance of the
> specifics and the later reference to rap.. but...
> still my point stands... we lose something if we
> abandon wholesale physically actuated sound and the
> fragility of the live but wholesale dismissal of new
> musical practices is foolish, blunts our lives and
> experiences... fiercely critical openness seems to
> me the order of the day :)
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 9:45 pm, Rob Myers
> <rob at robmyers.org> wrote:
>
> Grimes -
>
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Anthropocene
>
> I?m a big fan of all three but for very different reasons.
>
> - Rob.
>
> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 1:13 PM, Michael Szpakowski
> <m at michaelszpakowski.org> wrote:
> Do you mean Grime Simon? I?m unclear. I think
> there is a big difference between a healthy
> scepticism and nuanced discussion about how
> tech can on occasion be ill used and the
> dismissal of whole swathes of work...
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:36 pm, Simon
> Mclennan via NetBehaviour
> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>
> Have to weigh in in this! Grimes.
> Sorry. Yes ? Grimes. Utterly
> soulless product without anything
> of cultural value to me, musical
> or otherwise. This discussion
> between these three entities makes
> me yawn. It?s all about money -
> absolutely nothing else - it?s the
> equivalent of Smash powdered
> potatoes - worse than that.
> These people are completely without musical
> talent - the so-name AI is less than the dirt
> under the nails of the Ed Blackwell.
> Technology is only about generating revenue.
> It does not help musicians - rap is a
> festering sore on the ass of the bourgeoisie.
> An undeniable itch - when scratched and
> cauterised momentarily it oozes some wealth
> for a tiny few participants.
> Sorry I rarely contribute to this list - and I
> dig you cats for keeping the stuff rumbling
> along the conveyor / keep it up and ? where?s my
> Jazzmaster and homemade inks....
>
> Sent from my spyphone
>
> On 28 Nov 2019, at 18:11, Alan Sondheim via
> NetBehaviour
> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>
> It's definitely a discussion we
> need to have. It reminds me of a
> dinner I had years ago w/ Cage who
> confirmed he criticized jazz
> because the player worked with
> fixed rhythms. Something gets lost
> in these discussions; Adorno fails
> miserably.
> Ah well... It relates to my writing
> about 'somatic ghosting' I think. And I
> always feel I have to justify myself
> (although the audience doesn't feel it)
> when I show up playing an acoustic
> guitar for example. -- Alan
>
> On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 1:06 PM Rob
> Myers <rob at robmyers.org> wrote:
> On 2019-11-27 7:40 p.m.,
> Alan Sondheim wrote:
> >> This sounds so
> white/privileged to me, the
> position
> > of the listener paramount
> for example, the relegation
> of community to
> > reproduction, etc. It's a
> form of hip effacement. I
> realize I haven't
> > read everything HH's has
> written, but there's a
> fundamental difference
> > between a drum machine and
> a "great drummer" who came
> from community,
> > breathes within community,
> and contributes to
> community. Thinking for
> > example of free jazz, and
> the difficulties and
> explorations of the great
> > players, the relation of
> that music to the cry, the
> field holler, the
> > blues, gospel musics, etc.
>
> I think HH would agree with
> you.
>
> > and I keep returning to
> white white white white
> white and privilege.
> There is something
> class-bound about Grimes
> (currently dating a
> billionaire) and HH (whose
> last album was their PhD
> thesis) arguing
> about who the future will be
> worse for. But I suspect
> that our own
> reactions can be similarly
> reduced to our respective
> identities.
>
> There's obviously a bigger
> historical discussion about
> race, technology,
> intellectual property and
> music that AI and "AI" are
> just the latest
> phase of. Drum machines
> being prominent in rap and
> techno and disdain
> for them as tools may be
> related, for example. Given
> this, I'm genuinely
> surprised that AI has been
> instantly mainstreamed in
> music in the way
> that it seems to have. More
> like the Fairlight than the
> 808...
>
> - Rob.
>
>
>
> --
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