[NetBehaviour] Links
Simon Mclennan
mclennanfilm at gmail.com
Thu Dec 5 03:52:35 CET 2019
Yes it is sound and music of course. - my friend writes her PhD on sound as surface using Deleuze, perhaps she can throw some light one day when she finishes it..
Lots of surface detail on that Grimes stuff - maybe the same as the overly detailed 8k films now, the cgi stuff is more than we can see with our eyes.
Towards perfection we miss the point. Obsessed with our overly technoistized lives to keep the wheels of industry and progress turning. They keep saying it’s inevitable - is it?
But the nice balance of the twanging acoustic instrument and human touch of the string / against the shiny one note perfect synth and drums all ai to swing - mmmm machine of perfection - we are dirt don’t forget. Machine is maths but false ersatz maths - not real maths of the universe of nothingness. Don’t forget it’s a magical tramsformation through our consciousness - then our tools of logic to make the world easier to live.
When did we pass it though - now it’s about money init? We don’t need the tools no more.
???
Sent from my spyphone
> On 5 Dec 2019, at 02:11, Alan Sondheim <sondheim at panix.com> wrote:
>
>
> Beautiful -
> Then again, in the discussion, for me it's got to do with steering mechanisms and a kind of Wired magazine collocation of technological epiphanies. There's more than that, there's room for everything; it's when one or another form dominates, the problems start up. But it's all only music, sound, yes?
>
>> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour wrote:
>>
>> Indeed Michael all things are a product of this world. And as such are
>> inevitable. Hierarchies therein generate processes and inevitable outcomes.
>> So yes, there?s great swathes of stuff to sort through. Made via machines.
>> I find that type of ultra commercial music dull to listen to - people can do
>> cultural studies sure, of these forms. Look good in the old ica bookshop.
>> But there is so much good music and art.
>> I guess if one can shine a light on political or philosophical or moral
>> questions, relevances then good on you.
>> I prefer to actually make music and art. Not talk about bad pop Muzak
>> myself.
>> Ha ha guess I always put my foot in it.
>> The carbuncle of the chattering classes.
>> What?s different about Grimes then? AI in music is it changing people?- of
>> course it reflects back into people?s values etc.
>> Corporate pop has been around a few decades no?
>> Techno and beats. Beats forever.
>> Forever beatific eh Alan.
>> Alan on the path looked up at me
>> Me on the fence
>> Singing him a song
>> Alan agreed with me
>> About animal exploitation
>> In the Prometheus show
>> In the toilet on the park
>> In London
>> We were together
>> With the bacteria teeth
>> And the little statuettes
>> Of bodies clinging
>> I singed at Alan
>> Then we talked a bit
>> He went to America again
>> I never saw him since
>> But seen his jangling and fast runs on the saz
>> And we discussed improv
>> He done it twenty years longer than me
>> Cos he is about 18 years my senior
>> And writes a lot
>> Creative and disjointed
>> Knows my landlord Aharon
>> Who skates and records the rumble
>> Sent from my spyphone
>> On 4 Dec 2019, at 23:48, Michael Szpakowski <m at michaelszpakowski.org> wrote:
>>
>> Maybe the question for music as it is for the network and lots
>> else should be ?what wealth of human practices would a decently
>> ordered and resourced world for everyone allow?? Often we seem to
>> critique the products of a distorted world rather than the
>> distortion itself, carts before horses...
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 11:42 pm, Michael Szpakowski
>> <m at michaelszpakowski.org> wrote:
>>
>> Ah ha! Misled by my relative ignorance of the
>> specifics and the later reference to rap.. but...
>> still my point stands... we lose something if we
>> abandon wholesale physically actuated sound and the
>> fragility of the live but wholesale dismissal of new
>> musical practices is foolish, blunts our lives and
>> experiences... fiercely critical openness seems to
>> me the order of the day :)
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 9:45 pm, Rob Myers
>> <rob at robmyers.org> wrote:
>>
>> Grimes -
>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Anthropocene
>> I?m a big fan of all three but for very different reasons.
>> - Rob.
>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 1:13 PM, Michael Szpakowski
>> <m at michaelszpakowski.org> wrote:
>> Do you mean Grime Simon? I?m unclear. I think
>> there is a big difference between a healthy
>> scepticism and nuanced discussion about how
>> tech can on occasion be ill used and the
>> dismissal of whole swathes of work...
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:36 pm, Simon
>> Mclennan via NetBehaviour
>> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>>
>> Have to weigh in in this! Grimes.
>> Sorry. Yes ? Grimes. Utterly
>> soulless product without anything
>> of cultural value to me, musical
>> or otherwise. This discussion
>> between these three entities makes
>> me yawn. It?s all about money -
>> absolutely nothing else - it?s the
>> equivalent of Smash powdered
>> potatoes - worse than that.
>> These people are completely without musical
>> talent - the so-name AI is less than the dirt
>> under the nails of the Ed Blackwell.
>> Technology is only about generating revenue.
>> It does not help musicians - rap is a
>> festering sore on the ass of the bourgeoisie.
>> An undeniable itch - when scratched and
>> cauterised momentarily it oozes some wealth
>> for a tiny few participants.
>> Sorry I rarely contribute to this list - and I
>> dig you cats for keeping the stuff rumbling
>> along the conveyor / keep it up and ? where?s my
>> Jazzmaster and homemade inks....
>> Sent from my spyphone
>> On 28 Nov 2019, at 18:11, Alan Sondheim via
>> NetBehaviour
>> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>>
>> It's definitely a discussion we
>> need to have. It reminds me of a
>> dinner I had years ago w/ Cage who
>> confirmed he criticized jazz
>> because the player worked with
>> fixed rhythms. Something gets lost
>> in these discussions; Adorno fails
>> miserably.
>> Ah well... It relates to my writing
>> about 'somatic ghosting' I think. And I
>> always feel I have to justify myself
>> (although the audience doesn't feel it)
>> when I show up playing an acoustic
>> guitar for example. -- Alan
>> On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 1:06 PM Rob
>> Myers <rob at robmyers.org> wrote:
>> On 2019-11-27 7:40 p.m.,
>> Alan Sondheim wrote:
>> >> This sounds so
>> white/privileged to me, the
>> position
>> > of the listener paramount
>> for example, the relegation
>> of community to
>> > reproduction, etc. It's a
>> form of hip effacement. I
>> realize I haven't
>> > read everything HH's has
>> written, but there's a
>> fundamental difference
>> > between a drum machine and
>> a "great drummer" who came
>> from community,
>> > breathes within community,
>> and contributes to
>> community. Thinking for
>> > example of free jazz, and
>> the difficulties and
>> explorations of the great
>> > players, the relation of
>> that music to the cry, the
>> field holler, the
>> > blues, gospel musics, etc.
>>
>> I think HH would agree with
>> you.
>>
>> > and I keep returning to
>> white white white white
>> white and privilege.
>> There is something
>> class-bound about Grimes
>> (currently dating a
>> billionaire) and HH (whose
>> last album was their PhD
>> thesis) arguing
>> about who the future will be
>> worse for. But I suspect
>> that our own
>> reactions can be similarly
>> reduced to our respective
>> identities.
>>
>> There's obviously a bigger
>> historical discussion about
>> race, technology,
>> intellectual property and
>> music that AI and "AI" are
>> just the latest
>> phase of. Drum machines
>> being prominent in rap and
>> techno and disdain
>> for them as tools may be
>> related, for example. Given
>> this, I'm genuinely
>> surprised that AI has been
>> instantly mainstreamed in
>> music in the way
>> that it seems to have. More
>> like the Fairlight than the
>> 808...
>>
>> - Rob.
>> --
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