[NetBehaviour] Links
Alan Sondheim
sondheim at panix.com
Thu Dec 5 16:16:56 CET 2019
agree completely with you here; the issue is dismissals on all sides,
which does affect the ability of musicians to earn a decent wage, for
example - that's what our four-day-improvisation at Eyebeam in 2012 (I
think) was about in part -
but then one could say, it's the audience that decides where the money
goes of course, so if for example robotic music/voice is preferred, then
why not?
but the one might analyze the culture and what occurs within the culture
when for example K-Pop dominates, and what happens to those singers and
musicians themselves? (three have committed suicide recently, one popular
group is on hiatus etc.).
ah, there's darkness and a little light everywhere -
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, Michael Szpakowski wrote:
> Hi all <But it's all only
> music, sound, yes?> I think it?s much more and that is what surfaces time and
> again in the discussion : music is a human social practice ( like language ,
> like all art) - it?s something human beings *do* ( and talk about, then do
> some more) .And this doing involves, whatever the technology, the fact of
> our embodiment. This doing is tied up with but not exactly reducible to some
> kind of communicative impulse - one that refers to ideas, but more
> importantly to affect... It also refers to itself - to previous practices
> and how they were carried out, to assessments of them &c That richness is
> why I cavill at wholesale dismissals ( or indeed endorsements) ?Truth is
> always concrete? as good old Vladimir Ilyich said...
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
> On Thursday, December 5, 2019, 2:11 am, Alan Sondheim <sondheim at panix.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Beautiful -
> Then again, in the discussion, for me it's got to do with
> steering
> mechanisms and a kind of Wired magazine collocation of
> technological
> epiphanies. There's more than that, there's room for everything;
> it's when
> one or another form dominates, the problems start up. But it's
> all only
> music, sound, yes?
>
> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour wrote:
>
> > Indeed Michael all things are a product of this world. And as
> such are
> > inevitable. Hierarchies therein generate processes and
> inevitable outcomes.
> > So yes, there?s great swathes of stuff to sort through. Made
> via machines.
> > I find that type of ultra commercial music dull to listen to -
> people can do
> > cultural studies sure, of these forms. Look good in the old
> ica bookshop.
> > But there is so much good music and art.
> > I guess if one can shine a light on political or philosophical
> or moral
> > questions, relevances then good on you.
> > I prefer to actually make music and art. Not talk about bad
> pop Muzak
> > myself.
> > Ha ha guess I always put my foot in it.
> > The carbuncle of the chattering classes.
> > What?s different about Grimes then? AI in music is it changing
> people?- of
> > course it reflects back into people?s values etc.
> > Corporate pop has been around a few decades no?
> > Techno and beats. Beats forever.
> > Forever beatific eh Alan.
> > Alan on the path looked up at me
> > Me on the fence
> > Singing him a song
> > Alan agreed with me
> > About animal exploitation
> > In the Prometheus show
> > In the toilet on the park
> > In London
> > We were together
> > With the bacteria teeth
> > And the little statuettes
> > Of bodies clinging
> > I singed at Alan
> > Then we talked a bit
> > He went to America again
> > I never saw him since
> > But seen his jangling and fast runs on the saz
> > And we discussed improv
> > He done it twenty years longer than me
> > Cos he is about 18 years my senior
> > And writes a lot
> > Creative and disjointed
> > Knows my landlord Aharon
> > Who skates and records the rumble
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my spyphone
> >
> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 23:48, Michael Szpakowski
> <m at michaelszpakowski.org> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe the question for music as it is for the network and lots
> > else should be ?what wealth of human practices would a
> decently
> > ordered and resourced world for everyone allow?? Often we seem
> to
> > critique the products of a distorted world rather than the
> > distortion itself, carts before horses...
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> > On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 11:42 pm, Michael Szpakowski
> > <m at michaelszpakowski.org> wrote:
> >
> > Ah ha! Misled by my relative ignorance of the
> > specifics and the later reference to rap.. but...
> > still my point stands... we lose something if we
> > abandon wholesale physically actuated sound and the
> > fragility of the live but wholesale dismissal of new
> > musical practices is foolish, blunts our lives and
> > experiences... fiercely critical openness seems to
> > me the order of the day :)
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> > On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 9:45 pm, Rob Myers
> > <rob at robmyers.org> wrote:
> >
> > Grimes -
> >
> > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Anthropocene
> >
> > I?m a big fan of all three but for very different reasons.
> >
> > - Rob.
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 1:13 PM, Michael Szpakowski
> > <m at michaelszpakowski.org> wrote:
> > Do you mean Grime Simon? I?m unclear. I think
> > there is a big difference between a healthy
> > scepticism and nuanced discussion about how
> > tech can on occasion be ill used and the
> > dismissal of whole swathes of work...
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> > On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:36 pm, Simon
> > Mclennan via NetBehaviour
> > <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
> >
> > Have to weigh in in this! Grimes.
> > Sorry. Yes ? Grimes. Utterly
> > soulless product without anything
> > of cultural value to me, musical
> > or otherwise. This discussion
> > between these three entities makes
> > me yawn. It?s all about money -
> > absolutely nothing else - it?s the
> > equivalent of Smash powdered
> > potatoes - worse than that.
> > These people are completely without musical
> > talent - the so-name AI is less than the dirt
> > under the nails of the Ed Blackwell.
> > Technology is only about generating revenue.
> > It does not help musicians - rap is a
> > festering sore on the ass of the bourgeoisie.
> > An undeniable itch - when scratched and
> > cauterised momentarily it oozes some wealth
> > for a tiny few participants.
> > Sorry I rarely contribute to this list - and I
> > dig you cats for keeping the stuff rumbling
> > along the conveyor / keep it up and ? where?s my
> > Jazzmaster and homemade inks....
> >
> > Sent from my spyphone
> >
> > On 28 Nov 2019, at 18:11, Alan Sondheim via
> > NetBehaviour
> > <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
> >
> > It's definitely a discussion we
> > need to have. It reminds me of a
> > dinner I had years ago w/ Cage who
> > confirmed he criticized jazz
> > because the player worked with
> > fixed rhythms. Something gets lost
> > in these discussions; Adorno fails
> > miserably.
> > Ah well... It relates to my writing
> > about 'somatic ghosting' I think. And I
> > always feel I have to justify myself
> > (although the audience doesn't feel it)
> > when I show up playing an acoustic
> > guitar for example. -- Alan
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 1:06 PM Rob
> > Myers <rob at robmyers.org> wrote:
> > On 2019-11-27 7:40 p.m.,
> > Alan Sondheim wrote:
> > >> This sounds so
> > white/privileged to me, the
> > position
> > > of the listener paramount
> > for example, the relegation
> > of community to
> > > reproduction, etc. It's a
> > form of hip effacement. I
> > realize I haven't
> > > read everything HH's has
> > written, but there's a
> > fundamental difference
> > > between a drum machine and
> > a "great drummer" who came
> > from community,
> > > breathes within community,
> > and contributes to
> > community. Thinking for
> > > example of free jazz, and
> > the difficulties and
> > explorations of the great
> > > players, the relation of
> > that music to the cry, the
> > field holler, the
> > > blues, gospel musics, etc.
> >
> > I think HH would agree with
> > you.
> >
> > > and I keep returning to
> > white white white white
> > white and privilege.
> > There is something
> > class-bound about Grimes
> > (currently dating a
> > billionaire) and HH (whose
> > last album was their PhD
> > thesis) arguing
> > about who the future will be
> > worse for. But I suspect
> > that our own
> > reactions can be similarly
> > reduced to our respective
> > identities.
> >
> > There's obviously a bigger
> > historical discussion about
> > race, technology,
> > intellectual property and
> > music that AI and "AI" are
> > just the latest
> > phase of. Drum machines
> > being prominent in rap and
> > techno and disdain
> > for them as tools may be
> > related, for example. Given
> > this, I'm genuinely
> > surprised that AI has been
> > instantly mainstreamed in
> > music in the way
> > that it seems to have. More
> > like the Fairlight than the
> > 808...
> >
> > - Rob.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > =====================================================
> > directory http://www.alansondheim.org
> > tel 718-813-3285
> > email sondheim ut panix.com, sondheim ut
> > gmail.com
> > =====================================================
> >
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