[NetBehaviour] question/s for the list

[Edward Picot]

Both parties are paralysed by the fact that amongst their grassroots 
membership are big numbers who voted "leave", for whatever reasons, and 
who would be infuriated and feel betrayed if there was another 
referendum: they'd see it as the metropolitan intelligentsia and the 
upper middle classes refusing to accept the outcome of the first 
referendum, because it didn't go the way they wanted. The equivalent, in 
other words, of dissolving the people and electing another.

Of course it's not that simple. The "leave" campaign was a tissue of 
atrocious lies and covert appeals to things like patriotism and racism. 
It was the old outvoting the young, and the have-nots outvoting the 
haves. It was about fear of outsiders, but it also expressed a revulsion 
against established politics and big faceless organisations of any 
description. It gave people a chance to kick out, and they took it. It 
sold them an illusion of taking "back" control of their own lives and 
destinies, as if they'd ever really had that control in the first place.

At the moment I'm not at all sure whether we're going to end up with 
another referendum or a no-deal scenario. There's a small but powerful 
group of hard-liners, especially right-wing hard-liners in the Tory 
party, who regard "crashing out" as the best possible outcome, and who 
are trying to scupper everything else so that the no-deal scenario comes 
into being by default. It's a bit scary.

I'm no fan of Europe - I agree with what Julian says about the European 
Commission. But the big questions with which we should be grappling are 
about the environment, and from that point of view I think we need a 
united Europe rather than a divided one. The worst thing about this 
whole Brexit mess is that it's distracting us from the things we really 
ought to be focussed on, and at the same time it's demonstrating more 
and more clearly how horribly inadequate the Parliamentary system is, as 
a means of dealing with anything that requires a bit of applied 
intelligence.

Edward


On 12/03/2019 17:49, Julian Brooks wrote:
> One take, amongst many no doubt:
> It's a bloody disaster (basically) - economically, culturally, 
> psychologically. Any-ology.
> While there's a very strong argument that the European Commission is 
> not much more than the lapdog of hypercapital, the European Union is a 
> wonderful thing and I am still in shock that we appear to be leaving 
> (& maybe even taking this grand experiment down with us).
>
> Nonetheless there's some heavy politics plating itself out today, and 
> the opposition (Labour really) were last week very clear to let the 
> Tories destroy themselves, distraction free.
>
> There's been growing momentum for a final Peoples Vote on either May's 
> deal or Remain - this scenario looks likelier by the moment. I would 
> also still presume that if an election is called, both Labour and 
> Conservative will still call for Brexit.
>
> This whole shitshow is a way off being resolved IMO - and tbh I don't 
> think we can ever go back. Equally, many of our Euro partners are very 
> understandably heartily sick of us as a nation. And who can blame 
> them, I feel the same.
>
> My €2 anyhow...
>
> Julian
>
> P.S. The BBC is sadly not a news org anymore, they only deal in 
> propaganda (think Fox w. Manners:)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> On 12 Mar 2019 17:22, Alan Sondheim < sondheim at panix.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>     I've been watching Brexit debates in Parliament on and off for
>     months and
>     months and have some questions here -
>
>     The main being why another referendum isn't being called.
>     Parliament's in
>     a mess; Brexit's already losing money and will lose research and
>     cultural
>     possibilities as well. It also seems that the public didn't really
>     understand the issues at the time of the referendum - and that
>     most people
>     don't understand them now.
>
>     How does this work with DIWO?
>
>     These questions might seem naive, but I'd like to hear what the
>     arts etc.
>     communities - what any communities - are thinking about this. How does
>     this effect small towns? Women? Cultural exchanges? Are artists
>     involved
>     in protesting one way or another? It seems from the outside that a
>     second
>     referendum is in order - is there any call for this from cultural
>     institutions? Apologies for naivete here; most of the information
>     we get
>     from BBC is from parliamentary debates or talking heads on CNN...
>
>     Thanks, Alan
>     _______________________________________________
>     NetBehaviour mailing list
>     NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
>     <mailto:NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
>     https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.netbehaviour.org/pipermail/netbehaviour/attachments/20190312/a5a7bff8/attachment.htm>