[NetBehaviour] question/s for the list

Edward Picot julian.lesaux at gmail.com
Thu Mar 14 18:25:47 CET 2019


I for one would very much like you to be queen.


On 14/03/2019 12:09, Helen Varley Jamieson wrote:
> my 2 cents, speaking as a new zealander with a british passport living 
> in germany - i completely agree with edward that the greatest tragedy 
> of brexit is that is is stealing precious time, energy & money from 
> the environmental and social issues that really matter. it's obscene 
> and completely irresponsible. britain's supposed leaders have handled 
> the whole fiasco appallingly badly - from calling the referendum in 
> the first place, then taking the very close result of a non-binding 
> referendum as if it was an absolute decree handed down from god, and 
> on it goes lurching from idiocy to madness. the government clearly 
> does not have the interests of the citizens or the country at heart. 
> if i was the queen i would have sacked the lot of them long ago!
> but unfortunately i'm not the queen, i'm just one of the 1.2 million 
> british citizens living in europe who weren't allowed to vote in the 
> referendum despite it having massive implications for us. certainly, 
> the european union is far from perfect, & sometimes systems do have to 
> be completely broken in order to be rebuilt. but brexit seems to be 
> just about the worst possible way to do it.
> alan, you might find the guardian a better source of news than the bbc.
> h : )
> On 13.03.19 04:58, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour wrote:
>> I really appreciate these replies; I've been reading and watching far 
>> too much rhetoric. The BBC, for us, is nothing like Fox news; at 
>> least in their reportage on U.S. affair, BBC Int'l is the best 
>> televised source we have. And I do a lot of news watching. The 
>> replies you sent explain a lot; the surface - what we're seeing here 
>> in Parliament (where there are long broadcasts on BBC) is constant 
>> innuendo and repetition, almost magical repetition, as if doing so 
>> would make it so; the interviews are often with splinter groups which 
>> just confuse the thing. The dates confuse the thing. I love Britain, 
>> not saying this lightly, and one of the odd things for me (and Azure) 
>> is the intelligence of all the noise - it's so much more intelligent 
>> than the noise here in the U.S. which so often amounts to hatred, 
>> anti-intellectualism, religion, and bullying. And this isn't just 
>> minority behavior - it's increasingly dominating. As a Jew, I can say 
>> we're dragged into it with the Jewish/Israel craziness - over and 
>> over again the news has to insist that all Jews don't support Israel 
>> - but the repetition serves otherwise. It's a real problem for the 
>> Democrats at this point... (For myself, the last time I was in Israel 
>> was a half century ago and I was horrified at that point w/ what was 
>> going on, on all sides, and swore never to return; if anything, I 
>> sided with the Arab population.) It's a frightening time... Apologies 
>> for going on so long and it's late here; we have a guest and have 
>> been working on writing tonight.
>> Thank you!, Alan
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 2:37 PM Edward Picot via NetBehaviour 
>> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org 
>> <mailto:netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>> wrote:
>>     Both parties are paralysed by the fact that amongst their
>>     grassroots membership are big numbers who voted "leave", for
>>     whatever reasons, and who would be infuriated and feel betrayed
>>     if there was another referendum: they'd see it as the
>>     metropolitan intelligentsia and the upper middle classes refusing
>>     to accept the outcome of the first referendum, because it didn't
>>     go the way they wanted. The equivalent, in other words, of
>>     dissolving the people and electing another.
>>     Of course it's not that simple. The "leave" campaign was a tissue
>>     of atrocious lies and covert appeals to things like patriotism
>>     and racism. It was the old outvoting the young, and the have-nots
>>     outvoting the haves. It was about fear of outsiders, but it also
>>     expressed a revulsion against established politics and big
>>     faceless organisations of any description. It gave people a
>>     chance to kick out, and they took it. It sold them an illusion of
>>     taking "back" control of their own lives and destinies, as if
>>     they'd ever really had that control in the first place.
>>     At the moment I'm not at all sure whether we're going to end up
>>     with another referendum or a no-deal scenario. There's a small
>>     but powerful group of hard-liners, especially right-wing
>>     hard-liners in the Tory party, who regard "crashing out" as the
>>     best possible outcome, and who are trying to scupper everything
>>     else so that the no-deal scenario comes into being by default.
>>     It's a bit scary.
>>     I'm no fan of Europe - I agree with what Julian says about the
>>     European Commission. But the big questions with which we should
>>     be grappling are about the environment, and from that point of
>>     view I think we need a united Europe rather than a divided one.
>>     The worst thing about this whole Brexit mess is that it's
>>     distracting us from the things we really ought to be focussed on,
>>     and at the same time it's demonstrating more and more clearly how
>>     horribly inadequate the Parliamentary system is, as a means of
>>     dealing with anything that requires a bit of applied intelligence.
>>     Edward
>>     On 12/03/2019 17:49, Julian Brooks wrote:
>>>     One take, amongst many no doubt:
>>>     It's a bloody disaster (basically) - economically, culturally,
>>>     psychologically. Any-ology.
>>>     While there's a very strong argument that the European
>>>     Commission is not much more than the lapdog of hypercapital, the
>>>     European Union is a wonderful thing and I am still in shock that
>>>     we appear to be leaving (& maybe even taking this grand
>>>     experiment down with us).
>>>     Nonetheless there's some heavy politics plating itself out
>>>     today, and the opposition (Labour really) were last week very
>>>     clear to let the Tories destroy themselves, distraction free.
>>>     There's been growing momentum for a final Peoples Vote on either
>>>     May's deal or Remain - this scenario looks likelier by the
>>>     moment. I would also still presume that if an election is
>>>     called, both Labour and Conservative will still call for Brexit.
>>>     This whole shitshow is a way off being resolved IMO - and tbh I
>>>     don't think we can ever go back. Equally, many of our Euro
>>>     partners are very understandably heartily sick of us as a
>>>     nation. And who can blame them, I feel the same.
>>>     My €2 anyhow...
>>>     Julian
>>>     P.S. The BBC is sadly not a news org anymore, they only deal in
>>>     propaganda (think Fox w. Manners:)
>>>     -------- Original Message --------
>>>     On 12 Mar 2019 17:22, Alan Sondheim < sondheim at panix.com
>>>     <mailto:sondheim at panix.com>> wrote:
>>>         I've been watching Brexit debates in Parliament on and off
>>>         for months and
>>>         months and have some questions here -
>>>         The main being why another referendum isn't being called.
>>>         Parliament's in
>>>         a mess; Brexit's already losing money and will lose research
>>>         and cultural
>>>         possibilities as well. It also seems that the public didn't
>>>         really
>>>         understand the issues at the time of the referendum - and
>>>         that most people
>>>         don't understand them now.
>>>         How does this work with DIWO?
>>>         These questions might seem naive, but I'd like to hear what
>>>         the arts etc.
>>>         communities - what any communities - are thinking about
>>>         this. How does
>>>         this effect small towns? Women? Cultural exchanges? Are
>>>         artists involved
>>>         in protesting one way or another? It seems from the outside
>>>         that a second
>>>         referendum is in order - is there any call for this from
>>>         cultural
>>>         institutions? Apologies for naivete here; most of the
>>>         information we get
>>>         from BBC is from parliamentary debates or talking heads on
>>>         CNN...
>>>         Thanks, Alan
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         NetBehaviour mailing list
>>>         NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
>>>         <mailto:NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
>>>         https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     NetBehaviour mailing list
>>>     NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org  <mailto:NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
>>>     https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     NetBehaviour mailing list
>>     NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
>>     <mailto:NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
>>     https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>> -- 
>> /=====================================================/
>> /directory http://www.alansondheim.org tel 718-813-3285
>> //email sondheim ut panix.com <http://panix.com>, sondheim ut 
>> gmail.com <http://gmail.com>/
>> /=====================================================/
>> _______________________________________________
>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> -- 
> helen varley jamieson
> helen at creative-catalyst.com <mailto:helen at creative-catalyst.com>
> http://www.creative-catalyst.com
> http://www.upstage.org.nz
> _______________________________________________
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.netbehaviour.org/pipermail/netbehaviour/attachments/20190314/5cbfcb76/attachment.htm>

More information about the NetBehaviour mailing list