[NetBehaviour] question/s for the list
Edward Picot
julian.lesaux at gmail.com
Thu Mar 14 18:25:47 CET 2019
Helen,
I for one would very much like you to be queen.
Edward
On 14/03/2019 12:09, Helen Varley Jamieson wrote:
>
> my 2 cents, speaking as a new zealander with a british passport living
> in germany - i completely agree with edward that the greatest tragedy
> of brexit is that is is stealing precious time, energy & money from
> the environmental and social issues that really matter. it's obscene
> and completely irresponsible. britain's supposed leaders have handled
> the whole fiasco appallingly badly - from calling the referendum in
> the first place, then taking the very close result of a non-binding
> referendum as if it was an absolute decree handed down from god, and
> on it goes lurching from idiocy to madness. the government clearly
> does not have the interests of the citizens or the country at heart.
> if i was the queen i would have sacked the lot of them long ago!
>
> but unfortunately i'm not the queen, i'm just one of the 1.2 million
> british citizens living in europe who weren't allowed to vote in the
> referendum despite it having massive implications for us. certainly,
> the european union is far from perfect, & sometimes systems do have to
> be completely broken in order to be rebuilt. but brexit seems to be
> just about the worst possible way to do it.
>
> alan, you might find the guardian a better source of news than the bbc.
>
> h : )
>
> On 13.03.19 04:58, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour wrote:
>> I really appreciate these replies; I've been reading and watching far
>> too much rhetoric. The BBC, for us, is nothing like Fox news; at
>> least in their reportage on U.S. affair, BBC Int'l is the best
>> televised source we have. And I do a lot of news watching. The
>> replies you sent explain a lot; the surface - what we're seeing here
>> in Parliament (where there are long broadcasts on BBC) is constant
>> innuendo and repetition, almost magical repetition, as if doing so
>> would make it so; the interviews are often with splinter groups which
>> just confuse the thing. The dates confuse the thing. I love Britain,
>> not saying this lightly, and one of the odd things for me (and Azure)
>> is the intelligence of all the noise - it's so much more intelligent
>> than the noise here in the U.S. which so often amounts to hatred,
>> anti-intellectualism, religion, and bullying. And this isn't just
>> minority behavior - it's increasingly dominating. As a Jew, I can say
>> we're dragged into it with the Jewish/Israel craziness - over and
>> over again the news has to insist that all Jews don't support Israel
>> - but the repetition serves otherwise. It's a real problem for the
>> Democrats at this point... (For myself, the last time I was in Israel
>> was a half century ago and I was horrified at that point w/ what was
>> going on, on all sides, and swore never to return; if anything, I
>> sided with the Arab population.) It's a frightening time... Apologies
>> for going on so long and it's late here; we have a guest and have
>> been working on writing tonight.
>>
>> Thank you!, Alan
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 2:37 PM Edward Picot via NetBehaviour
>> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
>> <mailto:netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Both parties are paralysed by the fact that amongst their
>> grassroots membership are big numbers who voted "leave", for
>> whatever reasons, and who would be infuriated and feel betrayed
>> if there was another referendum: they'd see it as the
>> metropolitan intelligentsia and the upper middle classes refusing
>> to accept the outcome of the first referendum, because it didn't
>> go the way they wanted. The equivalent, in other words, of
>> dissolving the people and electing another.
>>
>> Of course it's not that simple. The "leave" campaign was a tissue
>> of atrocious lies and covert appeals to things like patriotism
>> and racism. It was the old outvoting the young, and the have-nots
>> outvoting the haves. It was about fear of outsiders, but it also
>> expressed a revulsion against established politics and big
>> faceless organisations of any description. It gave people a
>> chance to kick out, and they took it. It sold them an illusion of
>> taking "back" control of their own lives and destinies, as if
>> they'd ever really had that control in the first place.
>>
>> At the moment I'm not at all sure whether we're going to end up
>> with another referendum or a no-deal scenario. There's a small
>> but powerful group of hard-liners, especially right-wing
>> hard-liners in the Tory party, who regard "crashing out" as the
>> best possible outcome, and who are trying to scupper everything
>> else so that the no-deal scenario comes into being by default.
>> It's a bit scary.
>>
>> I'm no fan of Europe - I agree with what Julian says about the
>> European Commission. But the big questions with which we should
>> be grappling are about the environment, and from that point of
>> view I think we need a united Europe rather than a divided one.
>> The worst thing about this whole Brexit mess is that it's
>> distracting us from the things we really ought to be focussed on,
>> and at the same time it's demonstrating more and more clearly how
>> horribly inadequate the Parliamentary system is, as a means of
>> dealing with anything that requires a bit of applied intelligence.
>>
>> Edward
>>
>>
>> On 12/03/2019 17:49, Julian Brooks wrote:
>>> One take, amongst many no doubt:
>>> It's a bloody disaster (basically) - economically, culturally,
>>> psychologically. Any-ology.
>>> While there's a very strong argument that the European
>>> Commission is not much more than the lapdog of hypercapital, the
>>> European Union is a wonderful thing and I am still in shock that
>>> we appear to be leaving (& maybe even taking this grand
>>> experiment down with us).
>>>
>>> Nonetheless there's some heavy politics plating itself out
>>> today, and the opposition (Labour really) were last week very
>>> clear to let the Tories destroy themselves, distraction free.
>>>
>>> There's been growing momentum for a final Peoples Vote on either
>>> May's deal or Remain - this scenario looks likelier by the
>>> moment. I would also still presume that if an election is
>>> called, both Labour and Conservative will still call for Brexit.
>>>
>>> This whole shitshow is a way off being resolved IMO - and tbh I
>>> don't think we can ever go back. Equally, many of our Euro
>>> partners are very understandably heartily sick of us as a
>>> nation. And who can blame them, I feel the same.
>>>
>>> My €2 anyhow...
>>>
>>> Julian
>>>
>>> P.S. The BBC is sadly not a news org anymore, they only deal in
>>> propaganda (think Fox w. Manners:)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> On 12 Mar 2019 17:22, Alan Sondheim < sondheim at panix.com
>>> <mailto:sondheim at panix.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've been watching Brexit debates in Parliament on and off
>>> for months and
>>> months and have some questions here -
>>>
>>> The main being why another referendum isn't being called.
>>> Parliament's in
>>> a mess; Brexit's already losing money and will lose research
>>> and cultural
>>> possibilities as well. It also seems that the public didn't
>>> really
>>> understand the issues at the time of the referendum - and
>>> that most people
>>> don't understand them now.
>>>
>>> How does this work with DIWO?
>>>
>>> These questions might seem naive, but I'd like to hear what
>>> the arts etc.
>>> communities - what any communities - are thinking about
>>> this. How does
>>> this effect small towns? Women? Cultural exchanges? Are
>>> artists involved
>>> in protesting one way or another? It seems from the outside
>>> that a second
>>> referendum is in order - is there any call for this from
>>> cultural
>>> institutions? Apologies for naivete here; most of the
>>> information we get
>>> from BBC is from parliamentary debates or talking heads on
>>> CNN...
>>>
>>> Thanks, Alan
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
>>
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> --
>
> helen varley jamieson
>
> helen at creative-catalyst.com <mailto:helen at creative-catalyst.com>
> http://www.creative-catalyst.com
> http://www.upstage.org.nz
>
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