[NetBehaviour] question/s for the list

Helen Varley Jamieson helen at creative-catalyst.com
Fri Mar 15 11:00:05 CET 2019


thanks edward :D

looks like we have a bit of a mess now in new zealand as well ... :(

On 14.03.19 18:37, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour wrote:
> Hi Helen, I READ the Guardian of course and I also WATCH PARLIAMENT on
> the BBC, a feast so to speak for the census!
> We're going to have our own mess here, now over antisemitism etc. but
> also so many applications to fight off Trump for the next election - I
> can see the party again splitting over Sanders etc. and again Trump
> getting elected and it's frightening as well, given we're now run by
> mobsters.
> On a brighter note, however, in my tiny universe, Zidane has taken
> over Real Madrid once again!
> Thanks!
> Best, Alan, back to Brexit-watching!
>
> On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 1:27 PM Edward Picot via NetBehaviour
> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
> <mailto:netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>> wrote:
>
>     Helen,
>
>     I for one would very much like you to be queen.
>
>     Edward
>
>     On 14/03/2019 12:09, Helen Varley Jamieson wrote:
>>
>>     my 2 cents, speaking as a new zealander with a british passport
>>     living in germany - i completely agree with edward that the
>>     greatest tragedy of brexit is that is is stealing precious time,
>>     energy & money from the environmental and social issues that
>>     really matter. it's obscene and completely irresponsible.
>>     britain's supposed leaders have handled the whole fiasco
>>     appallingly badly - from calling the referendum in the first
>>     place, then taking the very close result of a non-binding
>>     referendum as if it was an absolute decree handed down from god,
>>     and on it goes lurching from idiocy to madness. the government
>>     clearly does not have the interests of the citizens or the
>>     country at heart. if i was the queen i would have sacked the lot
>>     of them long ago!
>>
>>     but unfortunately i'm not the queen, i'm just one of the 1.2
>>     million british citizens living in europe who weren't allowed to
>>     vote in the referendum despite it having massive implications for
>>     us. certainly, the european union is far from perfect, &
>>     sometimes systems do have to be completely broken in order to be
>>     rebuilt. but brexit seems to be just about the worst possible way
>>     to do it.
>>
>>     alan, you might find the guardian a better source of news than
>>     the bbc.
>>
>>     h : )
>>
>>     On 13.03.19 04:58, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour wrote:
>>>     I really appreciate these replies; I've been reading and
>>>     watching far too much rhetoric. The BBC, for us, is nothing like
>>>     Fox news; at least in their reportage on U.S. affair, BBC Int'l
>>>     is the best televised source we have. And I do a lot of news
>>>     watching. The replies you sent explain a lot; the surface - what
>>>     we're seeing here in Parliament (where there are long broadcasts
>>>     on BBC) is constant innuendo and repetition, almost magical
>>>     repetition, as if doing so would make it so; the interviews are
>>>     often with splinter groups which just confuse the thing. The
>>>     dates confuse the thing. I love Britain, not saying this
>>>     lightly, and one of the odd things for me (and Azure) is the
>>>     intelligence of all the noise - it's so much more intelligent
>>>     than the noise here in the U.S. which so often amounts to
>>>     hatred, anti-intellectualism, religion, and bullying. And this
>>>     isn't just minority behavior - it's increasingly dominating. As
>>>     a Jew, I can say we're dragged into it with the Jewish/Israel
>>>     craziness - over and over again the news has to insist that all
>>>     Jews don't support Israel - but the repetition serves otherwise.
>>>     It's a real problem for the Democrats at this point... (For
>>>     myself, the last time I was in Israel was a half century ago and
>>>     I was horrified at that point w/ what was going on, on all
>>>     sides, and swore never to return; if anything, I sided with the
>>>     Arab population.) It's a frightening time... Apologies for going
>>>     on so long and it's late here; we have a guest and have been
>>>     working on writing tonight.
>>>
>>>     Thank you!, Alan
>>>
>>>
>>>     On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 2:37 PM Edward Picot via NetBehaviour
>>>     <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
>>>     <mailto:netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Both parties are paralysed by the fact that amongst their
>>>         grassroots membership are big numbers who voted "leave", for
>>>         whatever reasons, and who would be infuriated and feel
>>>         betrayed if there was another referendum: they'd see it as
>>>         the metropolitan intelligentsia and the upper middle classes
>>>         refusing to accept the outcome of the first referendum,
>>>         because it didn't go the way they wanted. The equivalent, in
>>>         other words, of dissolving the people and electing another.
>>>
>>>         Of course it's not that simple. The "leave" campaign was a
>>>         tissue of atrocious lies and covert appeals to things like
>>>         patriotism and racism. It was the old outvoting the young,
>>>         and the have-nots outvoting the haves. It was about fear of
>>>         outsiders, but it also expressed a revulsion against
>>>         established politics and big faceless organisations of any
>>>         description. It gave people a chance to kick out, and they
>>>         took it. It sold them an illusion of taking "back" control
>>>         of their own lives and destinies, as if they'd ever really
>>>         had that control in the first place.
>>>
>>>         At the moment I'm not at all sure whether we're going to end
>>>         up with another referendum or a no-deal scenario. There's a
>>>         small but powerful group of hard-liners, especially
>>>         right-wing hard-liners in the Tory party, who regard
>>>         "crashing out" as the best possible outcome, and who are
>>>         trying to scupper everything else so that the no-deal
>>>         scenario comes into being by default. It's a bit scary.
>>>
>>>         I'm no fan of Europe - I agree with what Julian says about
>>>         the European Commission. But the big questions with which we
>>>         should be grappling are about the environment, and from that
>>>         point of view I think we need a united Europe rather than a
>>>         divided one. The worst thing about this whole Brexit mess is
>>>         that it's distracting us from the things we really ought to
>>>         be focussed on, and at the same time it's demonstrating more
>>>         and more clearly how horribly inadequate the Parliamentary
>>>         system is, as a means of dealing with anything that requires
>>>         a bit of applied intelligence.
>>>
>>>         Edward
>>>
>>>
>>>         On 12/03/2019 17:49, Julian Brooks wrote:
>>>>         One take, amongst many no doubt:
>>>>         It's a bloody disaster (basically) - economically,
>>>>         culturally, psychologically. Any-ology.
>>>>         While there's a very strong argument that the European
>>>>         Commission is not much more than the lapdog of
>>>>         hypercapital, the European Union is a wonderful thing and I
>>>>         am still in shock that we appear to be leaving (& maybe
>>>>         even taking this grand experiment down with us).
>>>>
>>>>         Nonetheless there's some heavy politics plating itself out
>>>>         today, and the opposition (Labour really) were last week
>>>>         very clear to let the Tories destroy themselves,
>>>>         distraction free.
>>>>
>>>>         There's been growing momentum for a final Peoples Vote on
>>>>         either May's deal or Remain - this scenario looks likelier
>>>>         by the moment. I would also still presume that if an
>>>>         election is called, both Labour and Conservative will still
>>>>         call for Brexit.
>>>>
>>>>         This whole shitshow is a way off being resolved IMO - and
>>>>         tbh I don't think we can ever go back. Equally, many of our
>>>>         Euro partners are very understandably heartily sick of us
>>>>         as a nation. And who can blame them, I feel the same.
>>>>
>>>>         My €2 anyhow...
>>>>
>>>>         Julian
>>>>
>>>>         P.S. The BBC is sadly not a news org anymore, they only
>>>>         deal in propaganda (think Fox w. Manners:)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         -------- Original Message --------
>>>>         On 12 Mar 2019 17:22, Alan Sondheim < sondheim at panix.com
>>>>         <mailto:sondheim at panix.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             I've been watching Brexit debates in Parliament on and
>>>>             off for months and
>>>>             months and have some questions here -
>>>>
>>>>             The main being why another referendum isn't being
>>>>             called. Parliament's in
>>>>             a mess; Brexit's already losing money and will lose
>>>>             research and cultural
>>>>             possibilities as well. It also seems that the public
>>>>             didn't really
>>>>             understand the issues at the time of the referendum -
>>>>             and that most people
>>>>             don't understand them now.
>>>>
>>>>             How does this work with DIWO?
>>>>
>>>>             These questions might seem naive, but I'd like to hear
>>>>             what the arts etc.
>>>>             communities - what any communities - are thinking about
>>>>             this. How does
>>>>             this effect small towns? Women? Cultural exchanges? Are
>>>>             artists involved
>>>>             in protesting one way or another? It seems from the
>>>>             outside that a second
>>>>             referendum is in order - is there any call for this
>>>>             from cultural
>>>>             institutions? Apologies for naivete here; most of the
>>>>             information we get
>>>>             from BBC is from parliamentary debates or talking heads
>>>>             on CNN...
>>>>
>>>>             Thanks, Alan
>>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>>             NetBehaviour mailing list
>>>>             NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
>>>>             <mailto:NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
>>>>             https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>     -- 
>>
>>     helen varley jamieson
>>
>>     helen at creative-catalyst.com <mailto:helen at creative-catalyst.com>
>>     http://www.creative-catalyst.com
>>     http://www.upstage.org.nz
>>
>>
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>
>
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helen varley jamieson

helen at creative-catalyst.com <mailto:helen at creative-catalyst.com>
http://www.creative-catalyst.com
http://www.upstage.org.nz

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