[NetBehaviour] question/s for the list
Helen Varley Jamieson
helen at creative-catalyst.com
Fri Mar 15 11:00:05 CET 2019
thanks edward :D
looks like we have a bit of a mess now in new zealand as well ... :(
On 14.03.19 18:37, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour wrote:
> Hi Helen, I READ the Guardian of course and I also WATCH PARLIAMENT on
> the BBC, a feast so to speak for the census!
> We're going to have our own mess here, now over antisemitism etc. but
> also so many applications to fight off Trump for the next election - I
> can see the party again splitting over Sanders etc. and again Trump
> getting elected and it's frightening as well, given we're now run by
> mobsters.
> On a brighter note, however, in my tiny universe, Zidane has taken
> over Real Madrid once again!
> Thanks!
> Best, Alan, back to Brexit-watching!
>
> On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 1:27 PM Edward Picot via NetBehaviour
> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
> <mailto:netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>> wrote:
>
> Helen,
>
> I for one would very much like you to be queen.
>
> Edward
>
> On 14/03/2019 12:09, Helen Varley Jamieson wrote:
>>
>> my 2 cents, speaking as a new zealander with a british passport
>> living in germany - i completely agree with edward that the
>> greatest tragedy of brexit is that is is stealing precious time,
>> energy & money from the environmental and social issues that
>> really matter. it's obscene and completely irresponsible.
>> britain's supposed leaders have handled the whole fiasco
>> appallingly badly - from calling the referendum in the first
>> place, then taking the very close result of a non-binding
>> referendum as if it was an absolute decree handed down from god,
>> and on it goes lurching from idiocy to madness. the government
>> clearly does not have the interests of the citizens or the
>> country at heart. if i was the queen i would have sacked the lot
>> of them long ago!
>>
>> but unfortunately i'm not the queen, i'm just one of the 1.2
>> million british citizens living in europe who weren't allowed to
>> vote in the referendum despite it having massive implications for
>> us. certainly, the european union is far from perfect, &
>> sometimes systems do have to be completely broken in order to be
>> rebuilt. but brexit seems to be just about the worst possible way
>> to do it.
>>
>> alan, you might find the guardian a better source of news than
>> the bbc.
>>
>> h : )
>>
>> On 13.03.19 04:58, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour wrote:
>>> I really appreciate these replies; I've been reading and
>>> watching far too much rhetoric. The BBC, for us, is nothing like
>>> Fox news; at least in their reportage on U.S. affair, BBC Int'l
>>> is the best televised source we have. And I do a lot of news
>>> watching. The replies you sent explain a lot; the surface - what
>>> we're seeing here in Parliament (where there are long broadcasts
>>> on BBC) is constant innuendo and repetition, almost magical
>>> repetition, as if doing so would make it so; the interviews are
>>> often with splinter groups which just confuse the thing. The
>>> dates confuse the thing. I love Britain, not saying this
>>> lightly, and one of the odd things for me (and Azure) is the
>>> intelligence of all the noise - it's so much more intelligent
>>> than the noise here in the U.S. which so often amounts to
>>> hatred, anti-intellectualism, religion, and bullying. And this
>>> isn't just minority behavior - it's increasingly dominating. As
>>> a Jew, I can say we're dragged into it with the Jewish/Israel
>>> craziness - over and over again the news has to insist that all
>>> Jews don't support Israel - but the repetition serves otherwise.
>>> It's a real problem for the Democrats at this point... (For
>>> myself, the last time I was in Israel was a half century ago and
>>> I was horrified at that point w/ what was going on, on all
>>> sides, and swore never to return; if anything, I sided with the
>>> Arab population.) It's a frightening time... Apologies for going
>>> on so long and it's late here; we have a guest and have been
>>> working on writing tonight.
>>>
>>> Thank you!, Alan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 2:37 PM Edward Picot via NetBehaviour
>>> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
>>> <mailto:netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Both parties are paralysed by the fact that amongst their
>>> grassroots membership are big numbers who voted "leave", for
>>> whatever reasons, and who would be infuriated and feel
>>> betrayed if there was another referendum: they'd see it as
>>> the metropolitan intelligentsia and the upper middle classes
>>> refusing to accept the outcome of the first referendum,
>>> because it didn't go the way they wanted. The equivalent, in
>>> other words, of dissolving the people and electing another.
>>>
>>> Of course it's not that simple. The "leave" campaign was a
>>> tissue of atrocious lies and covert appeals to things like
>>> patriotism and racism. It was the old outvoting the young,
>>> and the have-nots outvoting the haves. It was about fear of
>>> outsiders, but it also expressed a revulsion against
>>> established politics and big faceless organisations of any
>>> description. It gave people a chance to kick out, and they
>>> took it. It sold them an illusion of taking "back" control
>>> of their own lives and destinies, as if they'd ever really
>>> had that control in the first place.
>>>
>>> At the moment I'm not at all sure whether we're going to end
>>> up with another referendum or a no-deal scenario. There's a
>>> small but powerful group of hard-liners, especially
>>> right-wing hard-liners in the Tory party, who regard
>>> "crashing out" as the best possible outcome, and who are
>>> trying to scupper everything else so that the no-deal
>>> scenario comes into being by default. It's a bit scary.
>>>
>>> I'm no fan of Europe - I agree with what Julian says about
>>> the European Commission. But the big questions with which we
>>> should be grappling are about the environment, and from that
>>> point of view I think we need a united Europe rather than a
>>> divided one. The worst thing about this whole Brexit mess is
>>> that it's distracting us from the things we really ought to
>>> be focussed on, and at the same time it's demonstrating more
>>> and more clearly how horribly inadequate the Parliamentary
>>> system is, as a means of dealing with anything that requires
>>> a bit of applied intelligence.
>>>
>>> Edward
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/03/2019 17:49, Julian Brooks wrote:
>>>> One take, amongst many no doubt:
>>>> It's a bloody disaster (basically) - economically,
>>>> culturally, psychologically. Any-ology.
>>>> While there's a very strong argument that the European
>>>> Commission is not much more than the lapdog of
>>>> hypercapital, the European Union is a wonderful thing and I
>>>> am still in shock that we appear to be leaving (& maybe
>>>> even taking this grand experiment down with us).
>>>>
>>>> Nonetheless there's some heavy politics plating itself out
>>>> today, and the opposition (Labour really) were last week
>>>> very clear to let the Tories destroy themselves,
>>>> distraction free.
>>>>
>>>> There's been growing momentum for a final Peoples Vote on
>>>> either May's deal or Remain - this scenario looks likelier
>>>> by the moment. I would also still presume that if an
>>>> election is called, both Labour and Conservative will still
>>>> call for Brexit.
>>>>
>>>> This whole shitshow is a way off being resolved IMO - and
>>>> tbh I don't think we can ever go back. Equally, many of our
>>>> Euro partners are very understandably heartily sick of us
>>>> as a nation. And who can blame them, I feel the same.
>>>>
>>>> My €2 anyhow...
>>>>
>>>> Julian
>>>>
>>>> P.S. The BBC is sadly not a news org anymore, they only
>>>> deal in propaganda (think Fox w. Manners:)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> On 12 Mar 2019 17:22, Alan Sondheim < sondheim at panix.com
>>>> <mailto:sondheim at panix.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've been watching Brexit debates in Parliament on and
>>>> off for months and
>>>> months and have some questions here -
>>>>
>>>> The main being why another referendum isn't being
>>>> called. Parliament's in
>>>> a mess; Brexit's already losing money and will lose
>>>> research and cultural
>>>> possibilities as well. It also seems that the public
>>>> didn't really
>>>> understand the issues at the time of the referendum -
>>>> and that most people
>>>> don't understand them now.
>>>>
>>>> How does this work with DIWO?
>>>>
>>>> These questions might seem naive, but I'd like to hear
>>>> what the arts etc.
>>>> communities - what any communities - are thinking about
>>>> this. How does
>>>> this effect small towns? Women? Cultural exchanges? Are
>>>> artists involved
>>>> in protesting one way or another? It seems from the
>>>> outside that a second
>>>> referendum is in order - is there any call for this
>>>> from cultural
>>>> institutions? Apologies for naivete here; most of the
>>>> information we get
>>>> from BBC is from parliamentary debates or talking heads
>>>> on CNN...
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Alan
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>>
>> helen varley jamieson
>>
>> helen at creative-catalyst.com <mailto:helen at creative-catalyst.com>
>> http://www.creative-catalyst.com
>> http://www.upstage.org.nz
>>
>>
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--
helen varley jamieson
helen at creative-catalyst.com <mailto:helen at creative-catalyst.com>
http://www.creative-catalyst.com
http://www.upstage.org.nz
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