[NetBehaviour] Lost, on top of being lost— how fucking lost is that

Wed Sep 9 20:40:18 CEST 2020

Hey Max,

But you may have figured it out!

Thanks for the L stuff, Ha Ha I love this: Leonardo’s words, his railing against the patrician over-class, those of proper learning ha ha.

This expounding on experience is interesting indeed. A scientific course he was on. The great experimenter, and seer.

Definitely do all the goofy stuff you feel inspired to do! I applaud those who can dig deep into things like this.

I’m glad I’ve seen this, as it may work its way in some small measure into the tales of brave Bron and her

bearded scientific mate L!

Mind you I get the feeling my L is, though very bright and a right good inventor, a touch on the Dada side,
and often loses control of his machines - a bit like Roy Kinnear in HELP ha ha, or Catweazle!!
 All the best,

Simon

On 8 Sep 2020, at 23:26, Max Herman <maxnmherman at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
> Hi Simon,
> 
> Yes I've gotten the unfortunate idea that I've figured out the Mona Lisa (first person ever ha ha) based on two hypotheses, which are:
> 
> 1 - The bridge in the background represents the flow of the history of technology and engineering.  It "flows" via the spiral shawl into the garment which represents the current state of that history.  
> 
> 2 - The painting is an allegorical portrait of Leonardo's philosophical concept of "Experience," about which he wrote at length (and often personified as feminine), as in the excerpts below.
> 
> "[S]ound rules are the issue of sound experience — the common mother of all the sciences and arts." 
> 
> "Though I may not, like them, be able to quote other authors, I shall rely on that which is much greater and more worthy — on experience, the mistress of their Masters. They go about puffed up and pompous, dressed and decorated with [the fruits], not of their own labours, but of those of others. And they will not allow me my own."
> 
> "Many will think they may reasonably blame me by alleging that my proofs are opposed to the authority of certain men held in the highest reverence by their inexperienced judgments; not considering that my works are the issue of pure and simple experience, who is the one true mistress. These rules are sufficient to enable you to know the true from the false — and this aids men to look only for things that are possible and with due moderation — and not to wrap yourself in ignorance, a thing which can have no good result, so that in despair you would give yourself up to melancholy."
> 
> "Experience, the interpreter between formative nature and the human race, teaches how that nature acts among mortals; and being constrained by necessity cannot act otherwise than as reason, which is its helm, requires her to act."
> 
> "Wisdom is the daughter of experience."
> 
> "Experience never errs; it is only your judgments that err by promising themselves effects such as are not caused by your experiments."
> 
> "Experience does not err; only your judgments err by expecting from her what is not in her power. Men wrongly complain of Experience; with great abuse they accuse her of leading them astray but they set Experience aside, turning from it with complaints as to our ignorance causing us to be carried away by vain and foolish desires to promise ourselves, in her name, things that are not in her power; saying that she is fallacious. Men are unjust in complaining of innocent Experience, constantly accusing her of error and of false evidence."
> 
> "I am fully aware that the fact of my not being a lettered man may cause certain arrogant persons to think that they may with reason censure me, alleging that I am a man without letters.  Foolish folk!  Do they not know that I may retort by saying, as did Marius to the Roman patricians: 'They who themselves go adorned in the labour of others will not permit me my own?' They will say that, because of my lack of book learning, I cannot properly express what I desire to expound upon. Do they know that my subjects are based on experience rather than the words of others? And experience has been the mistress of those who wrote well. And so, as mistress, I will acknowledge her and, in every case, I will give her as evidence." 
> 
> etc.
> 
> So, I'm trying to ask around about the idea, find sources and corroboration, plan a book, pitch articles, all the goofy stuff one does in such delusory states.  🙂
> 
> All best,
> 
> Max
> 
> 
> From: Simon Mclennan <mclennanfilm at gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2020 1:33 PM
> To: Max Herman <maxnmherman at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Lost, on top of being lost— how fucking lost is that
>  
> Hi Max,
> Thank you for the interest, and the pointers. I’ve not heard of those terms, but I will certainly look them up,
> and Peter Serling. It sounds very interesting stuff.
> I read your other comments and quotation which I found insightful, the stuff about Leonardo I think. I know that you have
> been working on research around the Mona Lisa?
> 
> Cheers and all the best.
> 
> Simon
> 
> On 8 Sep 2020, at 18:07, Max Herman <maxnmherman at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Hi Simon,
>> 
>> Sending this offlist but feel free to reply onlist if you wish.
>> 
>> Are you familiar with interoception and proprioception?  I think they are very important in aesthetic experience but sometimes overlooked, as they are also sometimes overlooked in the cognitive sciences.  New research sometimes views them as important gaps in past research, and that's the kind of thing that sometimes artists can intuit early on before science catches up.
>> 
>> I've been interested in the work of Peter Sterling on allostasis lately, reading his What is Health? which says art and music are crucial evolutionary needs, basic metabolic functions you could say.
>> 
>> All best,
>> 
>> Max
>> 
>> 
>> From: NetBehaviour <netbehaviour-bounces at lists.netbehaviour.org> on behalf of Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2020 9:44 AM
>> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
>> Cc: Simon Mclennan <mclennanfilm at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Lost, on top of being lost— how fucking lost is that
>>  
>> Mmm, yes often it is slow, however there are no real boundaries from what I’ve seen and those
>> dancers I have worked with.
>> 
>> Atsushi Takenouchi performed in Hove Park near my house a few years ago. We attended. He moved at many different speeds. 
>> 
>> Following are some films I made after my experience of seeing butoh and attending workshops in London and Brighton
>> and being married at the time to a butoh dancer/teacher - Carolina Diaz.
>> 
>> The workshops allowed me to feel my body in a rather immediate and powerful sense, while becoming aware of how
>> I wanted to move my body. Like an unfolding of myself in time and space! In a small way I began to feel myself in
>> the moment so to speak. It felt like a very powerful practice.
>> 
>> I think it appeared in Japan around the same time as the Gutai expressionist movement (1950s), which I see as possibly related indirectly.
>> 
>> Caveo Vestri Mens https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTSG8cHANSA
>> 
>> Glass Flesh Kiss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUwsKgLh1HE
>> 
>> The drawings I made in Glass Flesh Kiss were a decade prior to this film. They are around 300 A4 charcoal drawings in negative,
>> filmed on B&W reversal super8 film, scanned and reversed.
>> The soundtrack I made using piano, guitar and reversed human voice recordings, written to accompany the completed
>> visual material of that film.
>> 
>> Thanks Alan for the interest!
>> 
>> Simon
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> On 8 Sep 2020, at 14:52, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> quite like this. the Butoh seems 'fast' in comparison to other I have seen. 
>>> have you done more work like this? Best, Alan
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 5:02 AM Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>>> https://youtu.be/W3MyDDc1SVY
>>> Thought this could be aired again - from 2015.
>>> 
>>> Filmed performance of The Advocates of Dereliction.
>>> Featuring 
>>> Carolina Diaz - butoh dance, choreography, costume.
>>> Mark Anthony Whiteford -Saxophone, voice, tapes, percussion, texts.
>>> Simon Mclennan - camera, editing.
>>> 
>>> 2015 - Portslade, Sussex.
>>> 
>>> From a single long improvisation.
>>> The sub-section titles concept in the film are from Carolina Diaz.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Simon
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my spyphone 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> 
>>> 
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