[NetBehaviour] analogy and AI poetry

Graziano Milano grazmaster at googlemail.com
Fri Jul 16 16:17:47 CEST 2021

Hi Eryk & all,

Here is the other video by the The Centre4NI:
The secret to innovation is NI (why biology will save us)

The Centre4NI <https://www.centre4ni.com> says on its website that:
“Natural Intelligence is the intelligence that is as old as time. It knows
what works, what lasts and what contributes to the future of life on Earth.
It is the driver behind 3.8 billion years of continuous innovation,
adaptation and, ultimately, regeneration. It is what enables nature to
survive and thrive – despite limited resources and endless change and
disruption. Tapping into NI is how we shift from tragedy to prosperity and
build businesses, organisations and institutions that foster a healthier,
wealthier and more viable future.”

They could add that "Natural Intelligence has also built and will carry on
building our artistic human creativity because as Da Vinci said *Nature is
the source of all true knowledge.*"


On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 at 14:20, Eryk Salvaggio via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
> Max, Paul & all;
> Thanks for all the thought-provoking links, everyone.
> Sometimes there are shades of panic in the way I see AI art. It’s like
the machine is getting deep into my psyche, colonizing the culture as data
and spitting something out that barely resembles art or beauty or play. I
think that reflects the weaponized ideology of broader data practices
today: this is exactly what machine learning is doing, often to
catastrophic results. And much of that comes from how we imagine the links
between our imaginations and the machine’s “imagination.”
> The machine’s "imagination" (whatever happens in "latent space," which
seems to be the term we're using) is reaching to find patterns and
relationships, even when such patterns and relationships may not exist. We
hope that the way we take art into our minds is something different. But I
don’t know for sure.
> At the moment, I can only respond to this machine “imagination” in the
same way that we find meaning within a human-produced painting, or poem, or
film, or television advertisement. We imagine ourselves within those
worlds. We do this within our private mental spaces, but we hand over some
internal control to the artists, poets, or marketing agencies. When we do,
our story and their stories become temporarily intertwined with something
external. Whether we are being manipulated by poets or design houses, we
know it was human, and trying to meet us.
> With few exceptions, even the most alienating and experimental of these
communication forms are shaped by that desire for human comprehension.
Machines, in simulating art, do so without any desire to connect or
reassure us. The machine is not concerned with being understood, because it
doesn’t, and cannot, understand. It’s the cold indifference of a machine.
In the distance between us and it, we project all that we fear from the
Other: infallible, all-knowing, all-aware — and so we imagine the very
things that make them so frightening. I am used to the sense that the
screen is always there to take something from me, package it up, and offer
it back through the recommendation of some distant system. So, I am also
bringing that to my interactions with the system, in how I interpret
(imagine) what it is doing. Generative art systems don't "do this," I do it
to them.
> The uncanniness — that close-but-not-quite-human quality of machine
generated text and images — is a different way of intermingling
imaginations because we imagine it to be different. The image quality is
not so clear, and so the limits of the machine imagination intertwines with
a human desire to be immersed. I can see my own imagination reaching, and
how sometimes imagination fails, and unmasking that lie can be terrifying.
(The Lacanian "Real," etc.)
> -e.
> On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 3:38 PM Paul Hertz via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>> There's an essay, "Intelligence Without Representation" that Brooks
wrote in 1987, http://people.csail.mit.edu/brooks/papers/representation.pdf,
that offered what was then a new point of view on how to consider AI.
>> // Paul
>> On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 2:10 PM Paul Hertz <ignotus at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Max,
>>> The robotics researcher Rodney Brooks back in the late 1980s argued the
AI based on the construction of a "knowledge base" was bound to fail. He
made the case that a robot adapting to an environment was far more likely
to achieve intelligence of the sort that humans demonstrate precisely
because it was embodied. Some of his ideas are presented in the movie Fast,
Cheap, and Out of Control, directed ISTR by Errol Morris. If you haven't
seen it yet, I can recommend it.
>>> -- Paul
>>> On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 1:38 PM Max Herman via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I know virtually nothing about AI, beyond what the letters stand for,
but noticed this new article in Quanta Magazine.  Does it pertain at all?
Interestingly it concludes that in order for AI to be human-like it will
need to understand analogy, the basis of abstraction, which may require it
to have a body!
>>>> I have been interested in the book GEB by Hofstadter for some time,
and have been researching how it was referenced (specifically its Chapter
IV "Consistency, Completeness, and Geometry" and its Introduction) by Italo
Calvino in Six Memos for the Next Millennium, so Mitchell's connection to
Hofstadter and GEB is interesting on a general level.
>>>> Coincidentally I contacted her a year ago to ask about the Calvino
connection but she replied she hadn't read any Calvino or the Six Memos.
However, his titles for the six memos -- Lightness, Quickness, Exactitude,
Visibility, Multiplicity, and Consistency -- might be exactly the kinds of
"bodily" senses AI will need to have!
>>>> All best,
>>>> Max
>>>> https://www.etymonline.com/word/analogy
>>>> https://www.etymonline.com/word/analogue
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>>>> NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
>>>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>> --
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