[NetBehaviour] email lists -

Paul Hertz ignotus at gmail.com
Tue Jun 1 07:01:33 CEST 2021


I value this list, though I am usually rather quiet about it. I think the
conversations that I have read here and any we might have in the future are
a practical impossibility on social media. Other peopel have already stated
the reasons why.

I have not thought of this list as a place to post my work. As a place to
post Alan's work, well yes. :^) Perhaps I should post some work, or work
and words about it. Perhaps we all should.

I hear what Ruth has to say about changes to the list. On the one hand, I
like how it has been over the years I have been lurking, re3adn, and
sometimes posting. On the tother, I believe having new people take on
responsibilities is usually a Good Thing, especially for people who have
had to do the work of maintaining and directing a list, but also for the
energy and ideas that can follow.

I wonder if as an adjunct to the list, some sort of video chat might
occasionally be useful, if only to sit around talking, mayhap with beverage
of choice.

avanti,

-- Paul

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 11:16 PM Alan Sondheim <sondheim at panix.com> wrote:

>
> I agree with you totally below. I've also learned new things, to be
> honest, the discussions around Furtherfield and role-playing have been
> fascinating and inspiring. And all that's to the good. I've also been more
> or less meditating on Frankenstein - it's interesting that Science devoted
> a special issue to the book a few years ago - the only work of art or lit.
> that's merited the attention -
>
> And so forth and so on. I've been collaborating with Maria Damon and Azure
> the past couple of days and that's been phenomenal and creative -
>
> Best Alan
>
> On Mon, 31 May 2021, Johannes Birringer via NetBehaviour wrote:
>
> > Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 20:58:58 +0000
> > From: Johannes Birringer via NetBehaviour
> >     <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> > To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
> >     <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> > Cc: Johannes Birringer <Johannes.Birringer at brunel.ac.uk>
> > Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] email lists -
> >
> > hello dear friends
> >
> > i use this address, as I know a few of you, or a certain number of you,
> and have worked and corresponded with you. I value this list, and like
> Alan, or Annie, and others i recently communicated with (for example with
> Max Herman on the Mona Lisa), I enjoy learning about your work, your ideas,
> your experiences. I am not sure anything has changed, at least not for me.
> I look forward to postings here, my only other regular outlets are the
> dance tech community, a debate forum called MOCO, and CRUMB, I have lost
> interest in empyre (too academic and correct-theory speak driven, elitist
> and unaware of its own elitism) but read it in on occasion, for
> distraction, and I try to avoid instagram and facebook as a discussion
> forum, as one cannot take them seriously. I am an older choreographer; so
> Alan I read you, I mean I hear your rersponse, but 'old' means little. I
> felt young yesterday, the sun laughed, people milled around, i was in
> central London for the first time in 14 months, visiting a
>  n
> > odd exhibit at the 'Royal Academy' called Emin/Munch,  what more can one
> ask for...
> >
> > take good care
> > Johannes Birringer
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: NetBehaviour <netbehaviour-bounces at lists.netbehaviour.org> on
> behalf of Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour <
> netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> > Sent: 30 May 2021 23:52
> > To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
> > Cc: Alan Sondheim
> > Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] email lists -
> >
> > I'd be sorry to lose that as well; I wish I could do something about it.
> It seems to me, having just come out of the Electronic Literature
> Conference, that new media work is more evident than ever, but perhaps
> Netbehaviour is no longer the place for it - but as far as e-lists go, I
> see nothing equivalent :-(
> >
> > Best, Alan, thank you for this --
> >
> > On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 3:32 PM Edward Picot via NetBehaviour <
> netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org<mailto:
> netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>> wrote:
> > Alan and Annie,
> >
> > I think it's partly because people aren't posting their new work, or
> notices about their new work, on here as much as they once did - which is
> partly because a lot of people have moved away from New Media Art and gone
> more into old-fashioned things like "pictures" and "writing", and
> NetBehaviour doesn't necessarily feel like the right vehicle for those. I'm
> spending a lot of time on Instagram these days, which I much prefer to
> Facebook or Twitter, and I see that Michael Szpakowski and Simon McLennan
> are both on there publishing new stuff on a regular basis.
> >
> > But I think NetBehavour still has this capacity to suddenly go from
> being very quiet to being incredibly voluble and fast-moving if somebody
> happens to raise a subject that really gets people thinking and talking.
> I've never known another online forum quite like it as a vehicle for
> debate, and I'd be very sorry to lose that.
> >
> > Edward
> >
> >
> >
> > On 30/05/2021 19:59, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour wrote:
> > Dear Annie and netbehaviourists
> >
> > I do feel differently; I've had amazing exchanges with you and Johannes
> Birringer and many others, and I can't imagine these occurring on Facebook;
> the very phenomenology of the stream mitigates against that. I don't know
> what you mean by "old" "intellectuals" since a number of people on the
> lists are also young. The list isn't sex, but sex is and sex is a lot
> faster than a list. It's the idea of "old" that bothers me; on Facebook
> where I post, as I mentioned, I get numbers of likes or loves to an image,
> but texts aren't taken seriously.
> >
> > Which for me reflects the whole intellectual apparatus of at least the
> US and possibly Europe - the need to be an academic or gallery- or
> magazine- affiliated. I have none of these and at ELO I felt for example as
> a total outsider. And that's a real problem. There are constant money
> issues, access issues, equipment issues, travel issues, survival issues,
> health issues, audience issues, etc. that are available if not taken for
> granted if you work at a university or tech company. Those issues dominate.
> My equipment is seriously poor at this point. God knows what happens in the
> rest of the world, where there may be no equipment at all. And these issues
> are fundamentally class issues: the intellectual class, old or not, is
> defined and siloed by its connections and potentials for connections. I
> wake up sometimes thinking critically and artistically I'm dead and why
> continue at all. And if I feel that way, again - God knows what happens in
> the rest of the world.
> >
> > I don't read everything on mailing lists, but I take the time to at
> least skim. And when I do reply (and I will always reply if I can to you,
> for example), I'll do more than click stupidly on like/love/care/angry and
> other emoji (which I use as well) (and which are frankly insulting -
> someone takes the time to put up something that make take hours, weeks -
> and the reply is a click??
> >
> > It's the stream stream stream stream stream which is NOT flow but
> inherently violent, sexist, racist, ageist, and anything else that
> excludes. Influencers bet on it: become part of the part or I WAS HERE BUT
> I DISAPPEAR. (maybe misquote from The Harder They Come).
> >
> > As far as NFT goes, I agree with your remark; again it drains any real
> discussion re: violence, aesthetics, philosophy, sexism, racism, etc. ..
> It's party time; you can't think against the stream; the boat you might
> rock founders on it.
> >
> > As far as Netbehaviour goes, I do hope discussion and presentation both
> pick up here. And I do NOT think it's an issue of age or intellectualism -
> but a need for ANYONE to have a space to think and discuss slowly enough
> within a space of consideration and considerateness...
> >
> > Best, Alan, and thank you for the reply.
> >
> > On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 11:55 AM Annie Abrahams via NetBehaviour <
> netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org<mailto:
> netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>> wrote:
> > Dear Alan and netbehaviourists
> >
> > I don't know why people write less in netbehaviour. Some hints: Email is
> not the favorite way of communication anymore. Information is toooo much
> everywhere, people tend to prioritise what is usefull. Etc etc. Mostly
> "old" "intelectuals" exchanging ... The list isn't sexy ...
> > I do miss the old mailing list where people discussed often without a
> fear to be ridicule, could ask stupid (what is that?) questions and get
> answers. But I  admit I also don't always take the time to read all.
> >
> > Last week I posted a remark on a not to be mentioned social network " I
> hate NFT - and am bored by it - no real perspective for change, just assets
> - it is consuming my attention without giving me anything" and got more
> than a 100 reactions, by far the most ever I think. I read it all, got
> links to a multitude of articles I mostly had already read.
> > And still I can't really make up my mind about it.
> > Then I thought what I would need is not another article, nor a podcast
> or talk, but a real conversation about this. A place to exchange about it,
> a place where no-one tells me what to read, but carefully answers my stupid
> questions, and asks me questions ....
> > not an email exchange, but a conversation .... (that maybe could be done
> via email exchange ..., maybe...)
> > Such a thing is lacking! Especially in Covid times.
> >
> > Bye bye
> > have a nice end of the day all
> > Annie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------
> > Moving Paintings, net art Sans Objet<
> https://www.centrepompidou.fr/fr/programme/agenda/evenement/8ZjR4xR>,
> exposition en ligne Centre Pompidou, 19/05 - 19/11 2021.
> >
> > Videos from Utterings Supra Semiotics Performance and Panel discussion<
> https://utterings.hotglue.me/?elo> <https://utterings.hotglue.me/?elo>
> Toward a Supra-Semiotic Telepresent Communication ELO 2021 Platform (Post?)
> Pandemic
> > ---------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 3:49 PM Alan Sondheim <sondheim at panix.com
> <mailto:sondheim at panix.com>> wrote:
> >
> > I've noticed this, and many other lists, have gone mostly silent (except
> > for neighborhood lists), and I'm wondering if this has to do with the end
> > of many lockdown restrictions? Neighbors are taking care of neighbors,
> and
> > of course in-person contact has increased enormously.
> >
> > The lists served two purposes during the height of the epidemic; in
> > addition to their stated content, they also upheld community. Now both
> > seem to have gone silent, at least for the moment.
> >
> > Comments greatly appreciated
> >
> > Best, Alan
> > _______________________________________________
> > NetBehaviour mailing list
> > NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org<mailto:
> NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> > _______________________________________________
> > NetBehaviour mailing list
> > NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org<mailto:
> NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> >
> >
> > --
> > =====================================================
> > directory http://www.alansondheim.org tel 718-813-3285
> > email sondheim ut panix.com<http://panix.com>, sondheim ut gmail.com<
> http://gmail.com>
> > =====================================================
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NetBehaviour mailing list
> > NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org<mailto:
> NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NetBehaviour mailing list
> > NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org<mailto:
> NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> >
> >
> > --
> > =====================================================
> > directory http://www.alansondheim.org tel 718-813-3285
> > email sondheim ut panix.com<http://panix.com>, sondheim ut gmail.com<
> http://gmail.com>
> > =====================================================
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> >
> >
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http://paulhertz.net/
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