[NetBehaviour] Netbehaviour renewal - Occupy? a commons? by a fire, in the ruins in an ancient woodland

Alan Sondheim sondheim at panix.com
Sun Jun 13 03:29:11 CEST 2021



Hi, For some reason I didn't see the last - and I agree totally with 
everything, and thank you.

Best, Alan


On Sat, 12 Jun 2021, Lichty, Patrick M wrote:

> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 20:06:30 -0500
> From: "Lichty, Patrick M" <pl at voyd.com>
> Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>     <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>     <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Netbehaviour renewal - Occupy? a commons? by a
>     fire, in the ruins in an ancient woodland
> 
> 
> So say me all.
> Yes, we need this place, we need you.
> 
>  
> 
> From: NetBehaviour <netbehaviour-bounces at lists.netbehaviour.org> on behalf
> of Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> Date: Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:12 AM
> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> Cc: Ruth Catlow <ruthcatlow at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Netbehaviour renewal - Occupy? a commons? by a
> fire, in the ruins in an ancient woodland
> 
>  
> 
> Hi  Alan
> 
>  
> 
> Did you read this bit?
> 
>  
> 
> "If we can agree that we (all subscribers) collectively own this place, and
> are willing to reflect on this occasionally - that's more than enough for
> me. We can stay with furtherfield legacy infrastructure and near-zero
> moderation by Marc and me for now (if that suits everyone)."
> 
>  
> 
> I was asking for responses to a proposal. I see your point about allowing
> people to go undeclared - I think it's a good one. 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 3:52 PM Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour
> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>
>       Hi Ruth,
> 
>  
> 
> I probably stand alone here. Occupy was many things, wasn't that well
> organized, I was there several times. There was always a drum circle
> on the outskirts that interrupted flow. There were outlying groups and
> meetings that weren't on the main site. It was chaotic. It was bottom
> up.
> 
>  
> 
> I don't like the suggestion below. First, I'm on a number of lists; on
> most of them I don't post, but I learn. This is a tradition all the
> way back. There are lists people have been silent on because they've
> infiltrated right-wing or fascist organizations. There are people on
> lists who don't want to be counted or accounted for, for many reasons.
> Your suggestion seems like a forced enrollment: come forward, tell
> everyone who you are, or you're gone. Another way to look at that:
> It's a privilege to be on this list and you must actively participate
> or you're gone. Or it's your duty as a member of this list to
> participate or you're gone. Or if you're shy and just interested in
> reading or possibly backchanneling only, you're gone.
> 
>  
> 
> This literally has me in tears. For me, again, lists have had the
> advantage of the commons. But this commons then has a different
> purpose, and if you don't fit in, leave. Then it's not a commons, is
> it? Or are you talking about a commons where people must announce
> their presence or be gone? You say "This revolved around efforts to
> create open access" - but does this mean that you _must_ access
> publicly and make your presence known?
> 
>  
> 
> Every list I'm on, by the way, is advertising-free; people might
> announce they have a harmonica for sale (harmonica list) or a new book
> has come out (wryting-l) or they're showing somewhere (Netbehaviour),
> but they're not advertisement-based of course. People announce from
> within the list, not to it.
> 
>  
> 
> We have to "know who is in the woods"? In England, perhaps land and
> parkland is managed differently than in the U.S. You have to sign in
> at National Parks, but just once - in fact that's like a subscription
> - but you don't need to announce who you are on any basis to everyone
> else. In state parks, you just go in, Much as this country is horrific
> and lawless and armed to the teeth, we feel comfortable going to parks
> (except for the tics).
> 
>  
> 
> I honestly don't feel comfortable on this list, and apologies for not
> being more helpful. I'll continue posting daily, you'll do what you
> want to do; the very performative discussion of unsubscribe is a
> signifier of power. I am so tired of, so worn out, by promulgations of
> power. (Yes, I know, power is everywhere, etc. But there are degrees
> and there are safe spaces, at least for now.)
> 
>  
> 
> Alan
> 
>  
> 
> On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 10:06 AM Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour
> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>
>       Dear everyone,
> 
>
>       Thanks so much for helping me to work through some of my
>       niggles with the list. I now have a much better sense of
>       what its value is to some of us at the fireside and a few
>       of the people from the woods. I've also been greatly
>       enjoying the recent exchanges!
>
>       I also found Adam's email beautiful. Especially personally
>       resonant because I lived for a year in Penryn unaware of
>       the history of the Ordinalia there. I find the format of
>       passion plays - "acts" of faith "performed" by people in
>       the places where they belong - enthralling.Thanks for that
>       Adam!
> 
> 
> Annie's response was also really helpful for me. The
> revolutionary impulse of the early media art initiatives that
> interested me was tied up with infrastructural critique and a
> desire to create a new art context together. This revolved
> around efforts to create open access, and co-ownership of the
> media and platforms we needed for collaboration. Bringing
> together FLOSS and Art. There is still a lot of inspiring work
> in this area Constant https://constantvzw.org/ for example. 
> 
> 
> While I "get" the Occupy vibe here, it doesn't feel so useful as
> an analogy for this list/community as it stands at the moment.
> Occupy's central commitment was to participatory democracy. The
> location of occupations were chosen for their symbolic
> significance to state-corporate capitalism, right? I guess we
> could think of this list as a prefigurative community resisting
> corporate platforms (I share everyone's love of this as an
> advertising-free space). But I detect less interest among this
> group in the question of how bottom-up decisions should be made
> to ensure fair distribution of power, and how that might in turn
> lead to the overthrow of capitalism. Occupy activists developed
> social technologies (some digital platforms, some gestures and
> techniques for use in large groups of people gathered
> physically) to make ALL the decisions together about all the
> things - from collective vision to organising waste-disposal.
> It's more emergent here.
> 
> If we can agree that Commons are "shared cultural or material
> resources managed by communities for individual and collective
> benefit" then maybe this is what we have been working out here
> over the last couple of weeks and Netbehaviour is a kind of
> commons. If we can agree that we (all subscribers) collectively
> own this place, and are willing to reflect on this occasionally
> - that's more than enough for me. We can stay with furtherfield
> legacy infrastructure and near-zero moderation by Marc and me
> for now (if that suits everyone).
> 
> Finally, I would be curious to hear your feelings about this
> proposal for list renewal.
> 
> =======================
> 
> 
> Over a 1 month period starting xxx
> We invite all subscribers to do one of 3 things
> 
> 1. Make a post on any topic or responding to anyone else's post
> 2. Send an email with "Happy Lurker" in the subject header
> 3. Do nothing.
> 
> At the end of this time, moderators could 
> 1. gather a list of everyone who posted
> 2. unsubscribe everyone else.
> 
> In this way we will know who we are, we will be able to see
> ourselves collectively and know who is in the woods.
> 
> 
> This is something we can do intermittently.
> ========================
> If you all love, hate or have alternative suggestions to this
> idea I'd love to know.
> 
>  
> 
> warmly
> Ruth
> 
>  
> 
> --
> 
> Ruth Catlow
> she/her
> Co-founder & Artistic director of Furtherfield & DECAL
> Decentralised Arts Lab
> 
> +44 (0) 77370 02879 
> 
> *I will only agree to speak at events that are racially and
> gender balanced. 
> 
> **sending thanks in advance
> 
> Furtherfield disrupts and democratises art and technology
> through exhibitions, labs & debate, for deep exploration, open
> tools & free thinking.
> 
> furtherfield.org
> 
>  
> 
> DECAL Decentralised Arts Lab is an arts, blockchain & web 3.0
> technologies research hub
> 
> for fairer, more dynamic & connected cultural ecologies &
> economies now.
> 
> decal.is
> 
> Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company Limited by Guarantee
> 
> Registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
> 
> Registered business address: Carbon Accountancy, 80-83 Long
> Lane, London, EC1A 9ET.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> =====================================================
> 
> directory http://www.alansondheim.org tel 718-813-3285
> email sondheim ut panix.com, sondheim ut gmail.com
> 
> =====================================================
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> 
> 
>  
> 
> --
> 
> Ruth Catlow
> she/her
> Co-founder & Artistic director of Furtherfield & DECAL Decentralised Arts
> Lab
> 
> +44 (0) 77370 02879 
> 
> *I will only agree to speak at events that are racially and gender
> balanced. 
> 
> **sending thanks in advance
> 
> Furtherfield disrupts and democratises art and technology through
> exhibitions, labs & debate, for deep exploration, open tools & free
> thinking.
> 
> furtherfield.org
> 
>  
> 
> DECAL Decentralised Arts Lab is an arts, blockchain & web 3.0 technologies
> research hub
> 
> for fairer, more dynamic & connected cultural ecologies & economies now.
> 
> decal.is
> 
> Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company Limited by Guarantee
> 
> Registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
> 
> Registered business address: Carbon Accountancy, 80-83 Long Lane, London,
> EC1A 9ET.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> 
> 
>


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