[NetBehaviour] email lists -

Johannes Birringer Johannes.Birringer at brunel.ac.uk
Mon May 31 22:58:58 CEST 2021


hello dear friends

i use this address, as I know a few of you, or a certain number of you, and have worked and corresponded with you. I value this list, and like Alan, or Annie, and others i recently communicated with (for example with Max Herman on the Mona Lisa), I enjoy learning about your work, your ideas, your experiences. I am not sure anything has changed, at least not for me. I look forward to postings here, my only other regular outlets are the dance tech community, a debate forum called MOCO, and CRUMB, I have lost interest in empyre (too academic and correct-theory speak driven, elitist and unaware of its own elitism) but read it in on occasion, for distraction, and I try to avoid instagram and facebook as a discussion forum, as one cannot take them seriously. I am an older choreographer; so Alan I read you, I mean I hear your rersponse, but 'old' means little. I felt young yesterday, the sun laughed, people milled around, i was in central London for the first time in 14 months, visiting an odd exhibit at the 'Royal Academy' called Emin/Munch,  what more can one ask for...

take good care
Johannes Birringer

________________________________________
From: NetBehaviour <netbehaviour-bounces at lists.netbehaviour.org> on behalf of Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
Sent: 30 May 2021 23:52
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
Cc: Alan Sondheim
Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] email lists -

I'd be sorry to lose that as well; I wish I could do something about it. It seems to me, having just come out of the Electronic Literature Conference, that new media work is more evident than ever, but perhaps Netbehaviour is no longer the place for it - but as far as e-lists go, I see nothing equivalent :-(

Best, Alan, thank you for this --

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 3:32 PM Edward Picot via NetBehaviour <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org<mailto:netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>> wrote:
Alan and Annie,

I think it's partly because people aren't posting their new work, or notices about their new work, on here as much as they once did - which is partly because a lot of people have moved away from New Media Art and gone more into old-fashioned things like "pictures" and "writing", and NetBehaviour doesn't necessarily feel like the right vehicle for those. I'm spending a lot of time on Instagram these days, which I much prefer to Facebook or Twitter, and I see that Michael Szpakowski and Simon McLennan are both on there publishing new stuff on a regular basis.

But I think NetBehavour still has this capacity to suddenly go from being very quiet to being incredibly voluble and fast-moving if somebody happens to raise a subject that really gets people thinking and talking. I've never known another online forum quite like it as a vehicle for debate, and I'd be very sorry to lose that.

Edward



On 30/05/2021 19:59, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour wrote:
Dear Annie and netbehaviourists

I do feel differently; I've had amazing exchanges with you and Johannes Birringer and many others, and I can't imagine these occurring on Facebook; the very phenomenology of the stream mitigates against that. I don't know what you mean by "old" "intellectuals" since a number of people on the lists are also young. The list isn't sex, but sex is and sex is a lot faster than a list. It's the idea of "old" that bothers me; on Facebook where I post, as I mentioned, I get numbers of likes or loves to an image, but texts aren't taken seriously.

Which for me reflects the whole intellectual apparatus of at least the US and possibly Europe - the need to be an academic or gallery- or magazine- affiliated. I have none of these and at ELO I felt for example as a total outsider. And that's a real problem. There are constant money issues, access issues, equipment issues, travel issues, survival issues, health issues, audience issues, etc. that are available if not taken for granted if you work at a university or tech company. Those issues dominate. My equipment is seriously poor at this point. God knows what happens in the rest of the world, where there may be no equipment at all. And these issues are fundamentally class issues: the intellectual class, old or not, is defined and siloed by its connections and potentials for connections. I wake up sometimes thinking critically and artistically I'm dead and why continue at all. And if I feel that way, again - God knows what happens in the rest of the world.

I don't read everything on mailing lists, but I take the time to at least skim. And when I do reply (and I will always reply if I can to you, for example), I'll do more than click stupidly on like/love/care/angry and other emoji (which I use as well) (and which are frankly insulting - someone takes the time to put up something that make take hours, weeks - and the reply is a click??

It's the stream stream stream stream stream which is NOT flow but inherently violent, sexist, racist, ageist, and anything else that excludes. Influencers bet on it: become part of the part or I WAS HERE BUT I DISAPPEAR. (maybe misquote from The Harder They Come).

As far as NFT goes, I agree with your remark; again it drains any real discussion re: violence, aesthetics, philosophy, sexism, racism, etc. .. It's party time; you can't think against the stream; the boat you might rock founders on it.

As far as Netbehaviour goes, I do hope discussion and presentation both pick up here. And I do NOT think it's an issue of age or intellectualism - but a need for ANYONE to have a space to think and discuss slowly enough within a space of consideration and considerateness...

Best, Alan, and thank you for the reply.

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 11:55 AM Annie Abrahams via NetBehaviour <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org<mailto:netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>> wrote:
Dear Alan and netbehaviourists

I don't know why people write less in netbehaviour. Some hints: Email is not the favorite way of communication anymore. Information is toooo much everywhere, people tend to prioritise what is usefull. Etc etc. Mostly "old" "intelectuals" exchanging ... The list isn't sexy ...
I do miss the old mailing list where people discussed often without a fear to be ridicule, could ask stupid (what is that?) questions and get answers. But I  admit I also don't always take the time to read all.

Last week I posted a remark on a not to be mentioned social network " I hate NFT - and am bored by it - no real perspective for change, just assets - it is consuming my attention without giving me anything" and got more than a 100 reactions, by far the most ever I think. I read it all, got links to a multitude of articles I mostly had already read.
And still I can't really make up my mind about it.
Then I thought what I would need is not another article, nor a podcast or talk, but a real conversation about this. A place to exchange about it, a place where no-one tells me what to read, but carefully answers my stupid questions, and asks me questions ....
not an email exchange, but a conversation .... (that maybe could be done via email exchange ..., maybe...)
Such a thing is lacking! Especially in Covid times.

Bye bye
have a nice end of the day all
Annie




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Moving Paintings, net art Sans Objet<https://www.centrepompidou.fr/fr/programme/agenda/evenement/8ZjR4xR>, exposition en ligne Centre Pompidou, 19/05 - 19/11 2021.

Videos from Utterings Supra Semiotics Performance and Panel discussion<https://utterings.hotglue.me/?elo> <https://utterings.hotglue.me/?elo> Toward a Supra-Semiotic Telepresent Communication ELO 2021 Platform (Post?) Pandemic
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On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 3:49 PM Alan Sondheim <sondheim at panix.com<mailto:sondheim at panix.com>> wrote:

I've noticed this, and many other lists, have gone mostly silent (except
for neighborhood lists), and I'm wondering if this has to do with the end
of many lockdown restrictions? Neighbors are taking care of neighbors, and
of course in-person contact has increased enormously.

The lists served two purposes during the height of the epidemic; in
addition to their stated content, they also upheld community. Now both
seem to have gone silent, at least for the moment.

Comments greatly appreciated

Best, Alan
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_______________________________________________
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--
=====================================================
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email sondheim ut panix.com<http://panix.com>, sondheim ut gmail.com<http://gmail.com>
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