[NetBehaviour] Ontological Banding

Alan Sondheim sondheim at gmail.com
Mon Nov 1 17:02:38 CET 2021

Hi Max,

No it wasn't thought of as me tv, at least I never heard that expression
used. It would have made more sense with CuSeeMe, but that's not flash.

Best, Alan -

On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 8:39 AM Max Herman via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I've lost track of how or whether face is discussed in Alan's first post
> on this.  It was evoked for me by his post on his Meta incorporation
> concept from 1972 (?), in the "TV ME" aspect.  I have wondered whether
> flash video streaming was once thought of as "Me TV," which would have been
> too clear, straightforward, and first-person, then therefore changed to
> "You" and "conduit that rhymes with too."  The latter is more of a removal
> of agency with a promise to restore it back.  Similarly, does the social
> media company under criticism lately not acquire the user's face, so to
> speak, then offer to sell it back?  I know this sounds absurd but maybe
> it's been articulated better elsewhere.  The brand name seems probably to
> have started off as "yearbook," as in the paper book students sign for each
> other at the end of a high school year, but changed to remove the element
> of time.
> Of course, names of brands are not determinative but to what extent are
> they strategically chosen?  In either case, the question of selling a
> person's face back to them after you have acquired it somehow remains; and
> if there is a pattern what else could be in the process of being similarly
> acquired then sold back?  This could also be overstating the case on my
> part, a kind of commercial phobia, not sure.
> All best,
> Max
> ------------------------------
> *From:* NetBehaviour <netbehaviour-bounces at lists.netbehaviour.org> on
> behalf of Max Herman via NetBehaviour <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
> >
> *Sent:* Friday, October 29, 2021 11:50 AM
> *To:* netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org <
> netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> *Cc:* Max Herman <maxnmherman at hotmail.com>; Anthony Stephenson <
> aps0loot at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [NetBehaviour] Ontological Banding
> Hi Anthony,
> That is a very interesting idea from Heydenreich, who I've never read and
> don't really know anything about though the name sounds familiar.  I did
> read somewhere that Leonardo's Arno Valley is sometimes considered the
> first true landscape, but I am too uneducated in art history to know if
> that holds true.  It would jibe with what I think I know of Leonardo, and I
> do know that he dated that sketch very prominently as in "I drew this
> sketch of the Arno Valley on October 27, 1481, signed, Leonardo da Vinci"
> or something like that which is atypical for him (and a little
> blockchainesque in that he used the "notarial" vocabulary of his father and
> grandfather who were notaries i.e. writers of official contracts).  One of
> my goals is to understand better if that sketch does qualify as the first
> landscape, because if it does it means a lot to how I would understand
> Leonardo.  I'll have to look up Heydenreich; one of the most interesting
> present-day scholars of Leonardo I've found is Joost Keizer of Groningen
> University.  He focuses a lot on Leonardo's use of word, text, and
> allegory, seeing a lot of very modern (as opposed to proto-modern) themes
> and structures.  I can't say if Keizer is 100% correct or not on all points
> -- who ever is -- but his assertions are definitely interesting.
> The idea of face as landscape is also super interesting.  I would be very
> curious to know if Deleuze wrote about the ML in particular,  but that idea
> is very prominent in the Leonardiana (i.e. that the person
> mirrors/echoes/reflects the rock and water landscape) which is a funny word
> that means "writings about Leonardo."
> Re this idea of face and landscape, it resonates with the interesting
> "Uninvited" project announced by Furtherfield as well as the rather
> dystopian morphisms of certain social media conglomerates in the news.
> Perhaps another correlation could be found between the "spirit of the
> tree," a kind of identity or perceptual counterpart, and the setting of
> Finsbury Park in the "Based on a Tree Story" project?
> I tend to range far too much on such comparisons but sometimes they are
> interesting or echo patterns that seem possibly relevant.  In the
> relatively cold climate I live in the leaves are all changing drastically
> this week and a couple of days of rain have brought a huge number to earth
> which are not yet raked up.  Tomorrow will be a mass festival of raking
> around hundreds of thousands of yards in silent synchrony.  I don't know
> why I like looking at these leaves around my block, in a sunny day after
> the rain yesterday, maybe because they are unusual colors?  My cat for
> example climbed on a neighbor's fence right next to a shrub with bright red
> leaves which was nice.  I don't see a face in these trees per se but I do
> see a kind of friend, something I'm glad to see again, something that means
> something, and maybe I like that it is non-digital and non-electronic to
> remind me that I and perhaps all life are also partly that?
> There could be a relation between the "intelligence" that imagines or
> images the environment and what that environment becomes, but also vice
> versa which Leonardo recommended very vociferously in quotations like:
> "Though human ingenuity may make various inventions which, by the help of
> various machines answering the same end, it will never devise any
> inventions more beautiful, nor more simple, nor more to the purpose than
> Nature does; because in her inventions nothing is wanting, and nothing is
> superfluous, and she needs no counterpoise when she makes limbs proper for
> motion in the bodies of animals. But she puts into them the soul of the
> body, which forms them that is the soul of the mother which first
> constructs in the womb the form of the man and in due time awakens the soul
> that is to inhabit it."
> I'm also trying to learn about how Renaissance (or "early modern") poetry
> including Dante related the face to the overall inner being, often using
> the metaphor of a balcony, situating the former as a venue transmitting
> both the individual and the general universal or environmental properties
> of the latter.  But it's very slow going and still no more than a hobby.
> All best,
> Max
> ------------------------------
> *From:* NetBehaviour <netbehaviour-bounces at lists.netbehaviour.org> on
> behalf of Anthony Stephenson via NetBehaviour <
> netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> *Sent:* Friday, October 29, 2021 10:23 AM
> *To:* netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org <
> netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> *Cc:* Anthony Stephenson <aps0loot at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [NetBehaviour] Ontological Banding
> Hello Max,
> Your continuing investigation into La Giocondo made me break open my
> only book on Leonardo. An interesting aside is something Ludwig
> Heydenreich once pointed out that Leonardo's sketch of the Arno valley
> (https://fineartamerica.com/featured/arno-landscape-leonardo-da-vinci.html
> )
> is "The first true landscape in art." But as far as ATP is concerned,
> you might want to check out the chapter (plateau) on faciality: '...
> the face has a correlate of great importance: the landscape, which is
> not just a milieu but a deterritorialized world. There are a number of
> face-landscape correlations,
> on this "higher" level. ... Painting takes up the same movement but
> also reverses it, positioning a landscape as a face, treating one like
> the other ...'
> --
> Anthony Stephenson
> http://anthonystephenson.org/
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