[NetBehaviour] Thoughts on Israel/Palestine

Suzon Fuks suzonfuks at gmail.com
Mon Nov 6 14:43:58 CET 2023


pfewwww, a bit of hope is necessary! Thanks Alan, thanks for your response
Greta!
We can hope that from chaos comes a kind of order...

First, cease fire!
Then, simultaneously, negotiations for a two-state solution AND put
resources together to save wounded people (Israeli hospitals and
international aids).
I like the idea of sharing the desalination plants to make water available
in the region! water is essential too! Mandatory cross-cultural education:
yes!

Apart from riots and putsch, how will Netanyahu, Israeli extremists and
Hamas be bypassed/removed??????

Any tricks on how to stop hate quickly? How to stop anger quickly?

I remembered being in Israel just after the 1967 war, playing with children
in the street. Most of them were so full of hate at that time against
Nasser, Egypt president. I, coming from Belgium, could not understand their
strong feelings and was so shocked by their behaviour. Since then, the
movement of Shalom Archav / Peace Now has developed and a large percentage
of the country wants peace.

Hate and anger make people deaf, if people could quieten down and listen.
How?


Suzon
+32 489 55 24 34 (while in Europe)   +61439929028 (Australia)


*ASSEMBLE *- installation performance - Prague National Gallery for PQ2023 with
the support of ASEKOL for lending e-waste
https://suzonfuks.net/assemble-pq2023/
*ARCHEO-GALAXY* installation included in the closing event of the Magdalena
Montpellier Festival https://suzonfuks.net/archeo-galaxy/
<https://suzonfuks.net/archeo-galaxy/?fbclid=IwAR3kWrGOnOdGUL58c8kXdfaQ1Q6v15qsiIwpM7Isvupu6ejDxdTHF6uhaVo>
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Asian Feedback Film Festival, Women's International Film Festival and
Special Mention from Asia South East Short Film Festival - trailer
https://youtu.be/ZAQYmRFaskM



*I acknowledge the country, culture and traditional custodians of the land
upon which I walk, work and live, the Turrbal and Jagera peoples.It takes
12000 litres of water to make 500 grams of chocolate! http://suzonfuks.net
<http://suzonfuks.net/> | https://www.instagram.com/suzonfuks
<https://www.instagram.com/suzonfuks> | http://igneous.org.au
<http://igneous.org.au/> | http://wetlandwander.net
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On Mon, 6 Nov 2023 at 21:02, <netbehaviour-request at lists.netbehaviour.org>
wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. toegristle #396 (Corey Eiseman)
>    2. Listings, some forgotten, from a long list disovered online
>       (Alan Sondheim)
>    3. Thoughts on Israel/Palestine (Alan Sondheim)
>    4. Re: Thoughts on Israel/Palestine (Gretta Louw)
>    5. Distorted views (Zak Qlikman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2023 09:01:50 -0500
> From: Corey Eiseman <corey at toegristle.com>
> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>         <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> Subject: [NetBehaviour] toegristle #396
> Message-ID:
>         <CAO=Ln=B=ZczgcBUo1X=
> inaYL+--ab8hqe5Dn-ShAp_mhu_xUBA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Perpetual Canvas No.396
> https://toegristle.com/?id=396
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2023 23:01:57 -0500 (EST)
> From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim at panix.com>
> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>         <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> Subject: [NetBehaviour] Listings, some forgotten, from a long list
>         disovered online
> Message-ID: <76d024ad-af52-3e7e-aa3d-96a82364b060 at panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
>
> Listings, some forgotten, from a long list disovered online
> - reviews etc. I feel I work either as a nuisance or as submerged,
> every so often I find these remnants - forget the source -
>
> https://www.wired.com/2008/11/all-the-alan-so/
> - Bruce Sterling, Wired
>
>
> https://soundcloud.com/user-23300991/alan-sondheim-short-wave-anomalous-recordings-1991-excerpt9673-excerpt
> - Cor Ardens, Soundcloud
>
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=UDi81QcqNFYC&pg=PA1260&lpg=PA1260&dq=Alan+Sondheim&source=bl&ots=uGp2fwq7Ir&sig=ACfU3U2oBSjHuROtrprUGtZaUFSXGQ4uFQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjL0uSe_eWBAxX-lYkEHSLyBZ44eBDoAXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Alan%20Sondheim&f=false
> - Re: The Ash Land - Google Books ?
>
>
> https://www.gamescenes.org/2010/05/art-in-virtual-worlds-yoshikazes-upintheair-2010.html
> - GAMESCENES, Art in Virtual Worlds: Alan Sondheim's "Birthship" (2010)
>
> https://dvblog.org/?p=10676
> DVblog - Alan Sondheim - Last Wine
>
>
> https://glia.ca/conu/digitalPoetics/prehistoric-blog/2008/08/27/1971-alan-sondheims-4320/
> David Jhave JohnstonDigital Poetics Prehistoric - 1971: Alan Sondheim's
> "4320"
>
> https://wavefarm.org/wf/archive/11vfg0
> Wave Farm | Poet Ray'd Yo: Alan Sondheim with Azure Carter
>
>
> https://gapplegatemusicreview.blogspot.com/2017/09/alan-sondheim-azure-carter-luke.html?m=1
> Gapplegate Music Review - Alan Sondheim, Azure Carter, Luke Damrosch,
> Threnody, Shorter Discourses of the Buddha (Public Eyesore)
>
>
> https://samplereality.com/gmu/digital/2012/10/08/alan-sondheims-internet-text-an-effective-example-of-a-new-media-database/
> Alan Sondheims Internet Text: An Effective Example of a New Media Database
>
>
> https://whitecolumns.org/exhibitions/video-installations-alan-sondheim-and-mike-metz/
> Alan Sondheim and Mike Metz _Video Installations,_ 112 Greene St.,
> 7/9/1971
>
>
> https://spawnofthesurreal.blogspot.com/2008/11/alan-sondheim-accidental-artist.html?m=1
> Alan Sondheim, the Accidental Artist
>
> https://digitalcommons.risd.edu/visitingartists/2/
> Alan Sondheim: "Post-Conceptual Art"; Alan Sondheim: "Recent work"
> by Robert Horvitz
>
> https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-137-08751-5_3
> Alan Sondheim's Internet Diaspora, Maria Damon, in Diasporic Avant-Gardes
>
> https://oldtimemusic.com/the-list-of-alan-sondheim-albums-in-order/
> The List of Alan Sondheim Albums in Order
> Last Updated on September 10, 2023 / By Joseph L. Hollen
> (not complete but great)
>
> https://openart.ai/discovery/sd-1007076624602243102
> Kathy Acker and Alan Sondheim sitting on a sofa in front of a office metal
> shutter. In front of them a table with blue video tapes Model: Stable
> Diffusion Width: 768Height: 1024 Seed: 4244808532
> (why?)
>
>
> https://www.slugmag.com/music/national-music-reviews/azure-carter-alan-sondheim-avatar-woman/
> Review: Azure Carter & Alan Sondheim  Avatar Woman
> By Stakerized November 6, 2014
>
>
> https://www.allaboutjazz.com/ritual-all-7-70-alan-sondheim-esp-disk-review-by-raul-dgama-rose
> Album Review Alan Sondheim: Ritual-All-7-70 Raul d'Gama Rose By Raul
> d'Gama Rose March 14, 2009 Sign in to view read count
>
>
> https://disasteramnesiac.blogspot.com/2014/04/azure-carter-alan-sondheim-avater-woman.html?m=1
> disaster amnesiac, Wednesday, April 2, 2014 Azure Carter & Alan
> Sondheim-Avatar Woman; Public Eyesore, 2014 (Mark Pino, Thank You!)
>
> __
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2023 03:48:08 -0500 (EST)
> From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim at panix.com>
> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>         <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> Subject: [NetBehaviour] Thoughts on Israel/Palestine
> Message-ID: <810b72e9-d0a2-6b2c-62d4-bc6402f2a6dd at panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> (apologies for so much posting recently, cutting back)
>
>
> Thoughts on Israel/Palestine
>
> 0. Like everyone else, I've been ruminating more or less in
>     despair at the situation in Israel/Palestine. Until my mother
>     died, she was active in the Hadassah women's organization,
>     and made many trips to the Mid-East and Europe, working on
>     peace processes; I have many of her documents and some of her
>     talks here. In any case, thinking about the situation,
>     however naive I might be -
>
> 1. A two-state solution is absolutely necessary; nations need
>     self-governance all the way around. There's no reason that
>     the West Bank and Gaza cannot be united through physical and
>     eletronic internetworking that would be able to respond
>     quickly to crisis.
>
> 2. Israel must pull out of Gaza; what started as defense and
>     retribution has turned into a massacre on the order of
>     Dresden or the Warsaw ghetto. Beyond the politics there's an
>     outdated issue of saving face which is increasingly deadly.
>
> 3. I believe that Israel still has nuclear weapons, and these
>     should be off the table completely. A war of any sort in
>     these small areas can escalate into annihilation: to the
>     limit as I once wrote.
>
> 4. The hospital systems of Gaza and Israel should connect and
>     the wounded of all parties should be able to receive
>     immediate treatment.
>
> 5. Talks should begin on all of this, sidelining Netanyahu and
>     Hamas; there should be no room for absolutism.
>
> 6. Jerusalem, in parts, should be an international city; there
>     are a number of religions which are somewhat central there,
>     and there should be no competition. It would be governed both
>     as the capital of Israel and an important religious and
>     political center for Arabs, Christians, and Jews.
>
> 7. I would keep in relation to 6, the ultra-orthodox out of all
>     of this; their reasoning tends towards catastrophe, and, like
>     Netanyahu, they have no interest in anything other, I think,
>     than total annihilation of the Arabs. The same would hold for
>     any other religion as well. I'd argue for the UN to control
>     the temple mount, wailing wall, etc.
>
> 8. A great deal of all of this should center on the Jordan River
>     which has been known for a long time to be in a contention
>     that's damaging to everyone - instead there should be an
>     international agency composed of all the countries involved,
>     to find the best way to employ the water for agriculture and
>     so forth. Likewise Israeli desalinization plants should be
>     open to all. Articles I've read have indicated that this
>     might well be sustainable.
>
> 9. Cross-cultural education should be offered to all and perhaps
>     made mandatory; there are too many misrecognitions among
>     peoples that are resulting in the growths of hatreds.
>     Face-to-face peaceful encounters should be instituted;
>     there's already much too much false information online on
>     both side to result in anything other than a sense of
>     absolute warfare and enemies.
>
> 10. In terms of #2, the pull-out should be an immediate priority
>      and Israeli hospitals and other institutions should be open
>      to receiving the wounded. In other words, there must be
>      immediate steps taken, above all, to at least hint of a
>      periphery of reconciliation and cooperation; the land-mass
>      is too rugged, too alienating itself for anyone to prosper
>      without cooperation.
>
> 11. Obviously there should be term limits on Israeli leaders;
>      Netanyahu, who of course is corrupt, is going the way of all
>      strong-men, caressing the state, consolidating power,
>      ensuring his continuous re-election, and working with a
>      vengeful and underlying militarism that affects everything.
>      The fact that he listens to no one but himself in this
>      catastrophe - which he is now both creating and continuing -
>      indicates he has no desire for a peace process. I'm reminded
>      of Pogo, "We have met the enemy and he is us" - and this is
>      absolutely true in this situation, with perhaps the worst
>      collateral damage the world has seen since World War II;
>      again Dresden comes to mind.
>
> 12. There should be any number of "temporary" withdrawals on the
>      Israeli side, to see if Hamas could be contained or even
>      become part of the peace process. In other words, in order
>      to give peace a chance, you need a space for peace, a space
>      that would, at least for the moment, refuse recrimination in
>      the interests of the families and cultural institutions
>      caught up in the middle of all of this. (Remember John and
>      Yoko's bed.)
>
> 13. I wonder if lessons might not be derived from Hiroshima in
>      particular, a cultural backing-away, finding other paths to
>      process what is happening and what has happened. I remember
>      the long tradition of the Jewish Left in America, saw it
>      work out, at least for a while, in New York city, and
>      whether one might draw on that as well. We're on the brink
>      of inconceivable horror, even worse than the current
>      carpet-bombing and violent moving of populations from one
>      place to another, what I called at one point "annihilation:
>      to the limit." We live in a universal shtetl.
>
> 14. Finally, I'd even think of Thomas Merton, Liberation
>      Theology, the world's calling for peace over and over again,
>      so many protests, so much pain distributed everywhere, and
>      see if it would be possible to at least begin the peace
>      process. I cannot imagine what it must be like living in
>      Gaza with continuous bombing, etc. - no sleep, no clean
>      clothes, no shelter, and always in a resulting state of
>      inconceivable anxiety and danger, sleeplessness and lack of
>      medication, nowhere to go, constant contradictory orders,
>      and people dying or wounded everywhere around you - in other
>      words a phenomenological environment of pain, fear,
>      exhaustion, hunger, illness. That should be absolutely
>      paramount.
>
> 15. I know of course what I'm writing is a fiction, has no
>      ultimate meaning in terms of performativity; it's something
>      I've been thinking about for a lot time, way before August.
>      A final note, the simplest thing - everyone involved should
>      be talking, however where and when, with everyone involved.
>      And more than anything, this should be within a safe space
>      for listening as well.
>
> - Alan
>
>
> __
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2023 11:00:11 +0100
> From: Gretta Louw <gretta.elise.louw at gmail.com>
> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>         <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Thoughts on Israel/Palestine
> Message-ID: <287B8D2C-593E-420D-A7DB-4586285B9369 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> This is a great list Alan. We must hold space for imagining paths to peace
> and coexistence no matter how fictitious they might currently seem.
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 6. Nov 2023, at 09:48, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour <
> netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > (apologies for so much posting recently, cutting back)
> >
> >
> > Thoughts on Israel/Palestine
> >
> > 0. Like everyone else, I've been ruminating more or less in
> >   despair at the situation in Israel/Palestine. Until my mother
> >   died, she was active in the Hadassah women's organization,
> >   and made many trips to the Mid-East and Europe, working on
> >   peace processes; I have many of her documents and some of her
> >   talks here. In any case, thinking about the situation,
> >   however naive I might be -
> >
> > 1. A two-state solution is absolutely necessary; nations need
> >   self-governance all the way around. There's no reason that
> >   the West Bank and Gaza cannot be united through physical and
> >   eletronic internetworking that would be able to respond
> >   quickly to crisis.
> >
> > 2. Israel must pull out of Gaza; what started as defense and
> >   retribution has turned into a massacre on the order of
> >   Dresden or the Warsaw ghetto. Beyond the politics there's an
> >   outdated issue of saving face which is increasingly deadly.
> >
> > 3. I believe that Israel still has nuclear weapons, and these
> >   should be off the table completely. A war of any sort in
> >   these small areas can escalate into annihilation: to the
> >   limit as I once wrote.
> >
> > 4. The hospital systems of Gaza and Israel should connect and
> >   the wounded of all parties should be able to receive
> >   immediate treatment.
> >
> > 5. Talks should begin on all of this, sidelining Netanyahu and
> >   Hamas; there should be no room for absolutism.
> >
> > 6. Jerusalem, in parts, should be an international city; there
> >   are a number of religions which are somewhat central there,
> >   and there should be no competition. It would be governed both
> >   as the capital of Israel and an important religious and
> >   political center for Arabs, Christians, and Jews.
> >
> > 7. I would keep in relation to 6, the ultra-orthodox out of all
> >   of this; their reasoning tends towards catastrophe, and, like
> >   Netanyahu, they have no interest in anything other, I think,
> >   than total annihilation of the Arabs. The same would hold for
> >   any other religion as well. I'd argue for the UN to control
> >   the temple mount, wailing wall, etc.
> >
> > 8. A great deal of all of this should center on the Jordan River
> >   which has been known for a long time to be in a contention
> >   that's damaging to everyone - instead there should be an
> >   international agency composed of all the countries involved,
> >   to find the best way to employ the water for agriculture and
> >   so forth. Likewise Israeli desalinization plants should be
> >   open to all. Articles I've read have indicated that this
> >   might well be sustainable.
> >
> > 9. Cross-cultural education should be offered to all and perhaps
> >   made mandatory; there are too many misrecognitions among
> >   peoples that are resulting in the growths of hatreds.
> >   Face-to-face peaceful encounters should be instituted;
> >   there's already much too much false information online on
> >   both side to result in anything other than a sense of
> >   absolute warfare and enemies.
> >
> > 10. In terms of #2, the pull-out should be an immediate priority
> >    and Israeli hospitals and other institutions should be open
> >    to receiving the wounded. In other words, there must be
> >    immediate steps taken, above all, to at least hint of a
> >    periphery of reconciliation and cooperation; the land-mass
> >    is too rugged, too alienating itself for anyone to prosper
> >    without cooperation.
> >
> > 11. Obviously there should be term limits on Israeli leaders;
> >    Netanyahu, who of course is corrupt, is going the way of all
> >    strong-men, caressing the state, consolidating power,
> >    ensuring his continuous re-election, and working with a
> >    vengeful and underlying militarism that affects everything.
> >    The fact that he listens to no one but himself in this
> >    catastrophe - which he is now both creating and continuing -
> >    indicates he has no desire for a peace process. I'm reminded
> >    of Pogo, "We have met the enemy and he is us" - and this is
> >    absolutely true in this situation, with perhaps the worst
> >    collateral damage the world has seen since World War II;
> >    again Dresden comes to mind.
> >
> > 12. There should be any number of "temporary" withdrawals on the
> >    Israeli side, to see if Hamas could be contained or even
> >    become part of the peace process. In other words, in order
> >    to give peace a chance, you need a space for peace, a space
> >    that would, at least for the moment, refuse recrimination in
> >    the interests of the families and cultural institutions
> >    caught up in the middle of all of this. (Remember John and
> >    Yoko's bed.)
> >
> > 13. I wonder if lessons might not be derived from Hiroshima in
> >    particular, a cultural backing-away, finding other paths to
> >    process what is happening and what has happened. I remember
> >    the long tradition of the Jewish Left in America, saw it
> >    work out, at least for a while, in New York city, and
> >    whether one might draw on that as well. We're on the brink
> >    of inconceivable horror, even worse than the current
> >    carpet-bombing and violent moving of populations from one
> >    place to another, what I called at one point "annihilation:
> >    to the limit." We live in a universal shtetl.
> >
> > 14. Finally, I'd even think of Thomas Merton, Liberation
> >    Theology, the world's calling for peace over and over again,
> >    so many protests, so much pain distributed everywhere, and
> >    see if it would be possible to at least begin the peace
> >    process. I cannot imagine what it must be like living in
> >    Gaza with continuous bombing, etc. - no sleep, no clean
> >    clothes, no shelter, and always in a resulting state of
> >    inconceivable anxiety and danger, sleeplessness and lack of
> >    medication, nowhere to go, constant contradictory orders,
> >    and people dying or wounded everywhere around you - in other
> >    words a phenomenological environment of pain, fear,
> >    exhaustion, hunger, illness. That should be absolutely
> >    paramount.
> >
> > 15. I know of course what I'm writing is a fiction, has no
> >    ultimate meaning in terms of performativity; it's something
> >    I've been thinking about for a lot time, way before August.
> >    A final note, the simplest thing - everyone involved should
> >    be talking, however where and when, with everyone involved.
> >    And more than anything, this should be within a safe space
> >    for listening as well.
> >
> > - Alan
> >
> >
> > __
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NetBehaviour mailing list
> > NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
> > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/pipermail/netbehaviour/attachments/20231106/e7b88233/attachment-0001.htm
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2023 12:20:15 +0200
> From: Zak Qlikman <gishel.sim at gmail.com>
> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>         <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> Subject: [NetBehaviour] Distorted views
> Message-ID:
>         <CAHEb=57wEZ0ka7zF=
> Z_WkBcX4NQ2G0Kvt8NTkUrm-7meA4X+gA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Aidan's unpleasant voice cuts through the ether, expressing frustration and
> heartache like a discordant melody in an otherwise tranquil room.
>
> "Why can't you take a moment to think about me?" Aidan's words hang in the
> air, heavy with emotion. "This is all a mistake. It's never going to work."
> [image: s#rroomsco - 01 Distorted views.jpg]
> Zak, resigned and wearing a puzzled expression, realizes that there's no
> use in attempting a response. It's as if their words exist in parallel
> universes, never quite aligning.
>
> Aidan, determined to be heard, presses on, "I can't handle it. For me, it's
> like cheating: You feel great, and I feel terrible."
>
> The room feels like a theater of the absurd, with emotions and accusations
> swirling around like bizarre props in a surreal play. Zak struggles to find
> words, caught in the maelstrom of Aidan's discontent.
>
> Aidan continues, their voice a tempest of frustration, "Why do you always
> make me feel like I'm intruding? You get all the recognition and feedback
> you want, and you always forget that I exist. It deeply hurts me. Suddenly,
> I'm not good enough anymore. That's exactly how I feel."
>
> In this ridiculous spectacle, they're confronted with the stark reality
> that their relationship has become a farce, a carnival of misunderstandings
> and unfulfilled expectations. It's clear that their distorted views of each
> other have irreparably transformed their connection into a bizarre circus.
> They stand there, looking at each other with a mixture of regret and
> resignation.
>
> --
>
> http://thevisitors.jeron.org/
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of NetBehaviour Digest, Vol 1965, Issue 1
> *********************************************
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