[NetBehaviour] Thoughts on Israel/Palestine
Alan Sondheim
sondheim at panix.com
Tue Nov 7 03:03:30 CET 2023
if only if only cease fire. i HATE Net* for his bigotry, misplaced sense
of war and retaliation; he brings shame to every Jewish person I know as
if we're held responsible. and I would be held as such if I could and stop
immediately everything and - and this could go on and on and on. we are
NOT doing well here as you may know, with my highschool friend the recent
victim of a mass murderer (her grandson), and another friend hospitalized
after a severe bicycle accident, not to mention the usual mayhem in Prov.
which is on the increase, along with anti-semitic incidents. it makes it
hard to get up in the morning. Netanyahoo has set the whole planet back
decades... i'll play sarangi this evening...
On Mon, 6 Nov 2023, Suzon Fuks via NetBehaviour wrote:
> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2023 23:43:58 +1000
> From: Suzon Fuks via NetBehaviour <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> Cc: Suzon Fuks <suzonfuks at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Thoughts on Israel/Palestine
>
> pfewwww, a bit of hope is necessary! Thanks Alan, thanks for your response
> Greta!
> We can hope that from chaos comes a kind of order...
>
> First, cease fire!
> Then, simultaneously, negotiations for a two-state solution AND put
> resources together to save wounded people (Israeli hospitals and
> international aids).
> I like the idea of sharing the desalination plants to make water available
> in the region! water is essential too! Mandatory cross-cultural education:
> yes!
>
> Apart from riots and putsch, how will Netanyahu, Israeli extremists and
> Hamas be bypassed/removed??????
>
> Any tricks on how to stop hate quickly? How to stop anger quickly?
> I remembered being in Israel just after the 1967
> war, playing with children in the street. Most of
> them were so full of hate at that time against
> Nasser, Egypt president. I, coming from Belgium,
> could not understand their strong feelings and
> was so shocked by their behaviour. Since then, the
> movement of Shalom Archav / Peace Now has developed
> and a large percentage of the country wants peace.
>
> Hate and anger make people deaf, if people could quieten down and listen.
> How?
>
>
> Suzon
> +32 489 55 24 34 (while in Europe) +61439929028 (Australia)
>
>
> ASSEMBLE - installation performance - Prague National Gallery for
> PQ2023 with the support of ASEKOL for lending e-waste
> https://suzonfuks.net/assemble-pq2023/
> ARCHEO-GALAXY installation included in the closing event of the Magdalena
> Montpellier Festival https://suzonfuks.net/archeo-galaxy/
> VOICES OF HAKKA WOMEN - Finalist of Her Vision Film Festival, Toronto's
> Asian Feedback Film Festival, Women's International Film Festival and
> Special Mention from Asia South East Short Film Festival -
> trailer https://youtu.be/ZAQYmRFaskM
>
> I acknowledge the country, culture and traditional custodians of the land
> upon which I walk, work and live, the Turrbal and Jagera peoples.
> It takes 12000 litres of water to make 500 grams of chocolate!
>
> http://suzonfuks.net | https://www.instagram.com/suzonfuks | http://igneous
> .org.au | http://wetlandwander.net
>
>
> On Mon, 6 Nov 2023 at 21:02, <netbehaviour-request at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> wrote:
> Send NetBehaviour mailing list submissions to
> netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. toegristle #396 (Corey Eiseman)
> 2. Listings, some forgotten, from a long list disovered
> online
> (Alan Sondheim)
> 3. Thoughts on Israel/Palestine (Alan Sondheim)
> 4. Re: Thoughts on Israel/Palestine (Gretta Louw)
> 5. Distorted views (Zak Qlikman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2023 09:01:50 -0500
> From: Corey Eiseman <corey at toegristle.com>
> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> Subject: [NetBehaviour] toegristle #396
> Message-ID:
>
> <CAO=Ln=B=ZczgcBUo1X=inaYL+--ab8hqe5Dn-ShAp_mhu_xUBA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Perpetual Canvas No.396
> https://toegristle.com/?id=396
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2023 23:01:57 -0500 (EST)
> From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim at panix.com>
> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> Subject: [NetBehaviour] Listings, some forgotten, from a long
> list
> disovered online
> Message-ID: <76d024ad-af52-3e7e-aa3d-96a82364b060 at panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
>
> Listings, some forgotten, from a long list disovered online
> - reviews etc. I feel I work either as a nuisance or as
> submerged,
> every so often I find these remnants - forget the source -
>
> https://www.wired.com/2008/11/all-the-alan-so/
> - Bruce Sterling, Wired
>
> https://soundcloud.com/user-23300991/alan-sondheim-short-wave-anomalous-rec
> ordings-1991-excerpt9673-excerpt
> - Cor Ardens, Soundcloud
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=UDi81QcqNFYC&pg=PA1260&lpg=PA1260&dq=Alan
> +Sondheim&source=bl&ots=uGp2fwq7Ir&sig=ACfU3U2oBSjHuROtrprUGtZaUFSXGQ4uFQ&
> hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjL0uSe_eWBAxX-lYkEHSLyBZ44eBDoAXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q
> =Alan%20Sondheim&f=false
> - Re: The Ash Land - Google Books ?
>
> https://www.gamescenes.org/2010/05/art-in-virtual-worlds-yoshikazes-upinthe
> air-2010.html
> - GAMESCENES, Art in Virtual Worlds: Alan Sondheim's "Birthship"
> (2010)
>
> https://dvblog.org/?p=10676
> DVblog - Alan Sondheim - Last Wine
>
> https://glia.ca/conu/digitalPoetics/prehistoric-blog/2008/08/27/1971-alan-s
> ondheims-4320/
> David Jhave JohnstonDigital Poetics Prehistoric - 1971: Alan
> Sondheim's
> "4320"
>
> https://wavefarm.org/wf/archive/11vfg0
> Wave Farm | Poet Ray'd Yo: Alan Sondheim with Azure Carter
>
> https://gapplegatemusicreview.blogspot.com/2017/09/alan-sondheim-azure-cart
> er-luke.html?m=1
> Gapplegate Music Review - Alan Sondheim, Azure Carter, Luke
> Damrosch,
> Threnody, Shorter Discourses of the Buddha (Public Eyesore)
>
> https://samplereality.com/gmu/digital/2012/10/08/alan-sondheims-internet-te
> xt-an-effective-example-of-a-new-media-database/
> Alan Sondheims Internet Text: An Effective Example of a New
> Media Database
>
> https://whitecolumns.org/exhibitions/video-installations-alan-sondheim-and-
> mike-metz/
> Alan Sondheim and Mike Metz _Video Installations,_ 112 Greene
> St.,
> 7/9/1971
>
> https://spawnofthesurreal.blogspot.com/2008/11/alan-sondheim-accidental-art
> ist.html?m=1
> Alan Sondheim, the Accidental Artist
>
> https://digitalcommons.risd.edu/visitingartists/2/
> Alan Sondheim: "Post-Conceptual Art"; Alan Sondheim: "Recent
> work"
> by Robert Horvitz
>
> https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-137-08751-5_3
> Alan Sondheim's Internet Diaspora, Maria Damon, in Diasporic
> Avant-Gardes
>
> https://oldtimemusic.com/the-list-of-alan-sondheim-albums-in-order/
> The List of Alan Sondheim Albums in Order
> Last Updated on September 10, 2023 / By Joseph L. Hollen
> (not complete but great)
>
> https://openart.ai/discovery/sd-1007076624602243102
> Kathy Acker and Alan Sondheim sitting on a sofa in front of a
> office metal
> shutter. In front of them a table with blue video tapes Model:
> Stable
> Diffusion Width: 768Height: 1024 Seed: 4244808532
> (why?)
>
> https://www.slugmag.com/music/national-music-reviews/azure-carter-alan-sond
> heim-avatar-woman/
> Review: Azure Carter & Alan Sondheim Avatar Woman
> By Stakerized November 6, 2014
>
> https://www.allaboutjazz.com/ritual-all-7-70-alan-sondheim-esp-disk-review-
> by-raul-dgama-rose
> Album Review Alan Sondheim: Ritual-All-7-70 Raul d'Gama Rose By
> Raul
> d'Gama Rose March 14, 2009 Sign in to view read count
>
> https://disasteramnesiac.blogspot.com/2014/04/azure-carter-alan-sondheim-av
> ater-woman.html?m=1
> disaster amnesiac, Wednesday, April 2, 2014 Azure Carter & Alan
> Sondheim-Avatar Woman; Public Eyesore, 2014 (Mark Pino, Thank
> You!)
>
> __
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2023 03:48:08 -0500 (EST)
> From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim at panix.com>
> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> Subject: [NetBehaviour] Thoughts on Israel/Palestine
> Message-ID: <810b72e9-d0a2-6b2c-62d4-bc6402f2a6dd at panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> (apologies for so much posting recently, cutting back)
>
>
> Thoughts on Israel/Palestine
>
> 0. Like everyone else, I've been ruminating more or less in
> despair at the situation in Israel/Palestine. Until my
> mother
> died, she was active in the Hadassah women's organization,
> and made many trips to the Mid-East and Europe, working on
> peace processes; I have many of her documents and some of
> her
> talks here. In any case, thinking about the situation,
> however naive I might be -
>
> 1. A two-state solution is absolutely necessary; nations need
> self-governance all the way around. There's no reason that
> the West Bank and Gaza cannot be united through physical and
> eletronic internetworking that would be able to respond
> quickly to crisis.
>
> 2. Israel must pull out of Gaza; what started as defense and
> retribution has turned into a massacre on the order of
> Dresden or the Warsaw ghetto. Beyond the politics there's an
> outdated issue of saving face which is increasingly deadly.
>
> 3. I believe that Israel still has nuclear weapons, and these
> should be off the table completely. A war of any sort in
> these small areas can escalate into annihilation: to the
> limit as I once wrote.
>
> 4. The hospital systems of Gaza and Israel should connect and
> the wounded of all parties should be able to receive
> immediate treatment.
>
> 5. Talks should begin on all of this, sidelining Netanyahu and
> Hamas; there should be no room for absolutism.
>
> 6. Jerusalem, in parts, should be an international city; there
> are a number of religions which are somewhat central there,
> and there should be no competition. It would be governed
> both
> as the capital of Israel and an important religious and
> political center for Arabs, Christians, and Jews.
>
> 7. I would keep in relation to 6, the ultra-orthodox out of all
> of this; their reasoning tends towards catastrophe, and,
> like
> Netanyahu, they have no interest in anything other, I think,
> than total annihilation of the Arabs. The same would hold
> for
> any other religion as well. I'd argue for the UN to control
> the temple mount, wailing wall, etc.
>
> 8. A great deal of all of this should center on the Jordan River
> which has been known for a long time to be in a contention
> that's damaging to everyone - instead there should be an
> international agency composed of all the countries involved,
> to find the best way to employ the water for agriculture and
> so forth. Likewise Israeli desalinization plants should be
> open to all. Articles I've read have indicated that this
> might well be sustainable.
>
> 9. Cross-cultural education should be offered to all and perhaps
> made mandatory; there are too many misrecognitions among
> peoples that are resulting in the growths of hatreds.
> Face-to-face peaceful encounters should be instituted;
> there's already much too much false information online on
> both side to result in anything other than a sense of
> absolute warfare and enemies.
>
> 10. In terms of #2, the pull-out should be an immediate priority
> and Israeli hospitals and other institutions should be open
> to receiving the wounded. In other words, there must be
> immediate steps taken, above all, to at least hint of a
> periphery of reconciliation and cooperation; the land-mass
> is too rugged, too alienating itself for anyone to prosper
> without cooperation.
>
> 11. Obviously there should be term limits on Israeli leaders;
> Netanyahu, who of course is corrupt, is going the way of
> all
> strong-men, caressing the state, consolidating power,
> ensuring his continuous re-election, and working with a
> vengeful and underlying militarism that affects everything.
> The fact that he listens to no one but himself in this
> catastrophe - which he is now both creating and continuing
> -
> indicates he has no desire for a peace process. I'm
> reminded
> of Pogo, "We have met the enemy and he is us" - and this is
> absolutely true in this situation, with perhaps the worst
> collateral damage the world has seen since World War II;
> again Dresden comes to mind.
>
> 12. There should be any number of "temporary" withdrawals on the
> Israeli side, to see if Hamas could be contained or even
> become part of the peace process. In other words, in order
> to give peace a chance, you need a space for peace, a space
> that would, at least for the moment, refuse recrimination
> in
> the interests of the families and cultural institutions
> caught up in the middle of all of this. (Remember John and
> Yoko's bed.)
>
> 13. I wonder if lessons might not be derived from Hiroshima in
> particular, a cultural backing-away, finding other paths to
> process what is happening and what has happened. I remember
> the long tradition of the Jewish Left in America, saw it
> work out, at least for a while, in New York city, and
> whether one might draw on that as well. We're on the brink
> of inconceivable horror, even worse than the current
> carpet-bombing and violent moving of populations from one
> place to another, what I called at one point "annihilation:
> to the limit." We live in a universal shtetl.
>
> 14. Finally, I'd even think of Thomas Merton, Liberation
> Theology, the world's calling for peace over and over
> again,
> so many protests, so much pain distributed everywhere, and
> see if it would be possible to at least begin the peace
> process. I cannot imagine what it must be like living in
> Gaza with continuous bombing, etc. - no sleep, no clean
> clothes, no shelter, and always in a resulting state of
> inconceivable anxiety and danger, sleeplessness and lack of
> medication, nowhere to go, constant contradictory orders,
> and people dying or wounded everywhere around you - in
> other
> words a phenomenological environment of pain, fear,
> exhaustion, hunger, illness. That should be absolutely
> paramount.
>
> 15. I know of course what I'm writing is a fiction, has no
> ultimate meaning in terms of performativity; it's something
> I've been thinking about for a lot time, way before August.
> A final note, the simplest thing - everyone involved should
> be talking, however where and when, with everyone involved.
> And more than anything, this should be within a safe space
> for listening as well.
>
> - Alan
>
>
> __
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2023 11:00:11 +0100
> From: Gretta Louw <gretta.elise.louw at gmail.com>
> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Thoughts on Israel/Palestine
> Message-ID: <287B8D2C-593E-420D-A7DB-4586285B9369 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> This is a great list Alan. We must hold space for imagining
> paths to peace and coexistence no matter how fictitious they
> might currently seem.
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 6. Nov 2023, at 09:48, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour
> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > (apologies for so much posting recently, cutting back)
> >
> >
> > Thoughts on Israel/Palestine
> >
> > 0. Like everyone else, I've been ruminating more or less in
> > despair at the situation in Israel/Palestine. Until my
> mother
> > died, she was active in the Hadassah women's organization,
> > and made many trips to the Mid-East and Europe, working on
> > peace processes; I have many of her documents and some of
> her
> > talks here. In any case, thinking about the situation,
> > however naive I might be -
> >
> > 1. A two-state solution is absolutely necessary; nations need
> > self-governance all the way around. There's no reason that
> > the West Bank and Gaza cannot be united through physical and
> > eletronic internetworking that would be able to respond
> > quickly to crisis.
> >
> > 2. Israel must pull out of Gaza; what started as defense and
> > retribution has turned into a massacre on the order of
> > Dresden or the Warsaw ghetto. Beyond the politics there's an
> > outdated issue of saving face which is increasingly deadly.
> >
> > 3. I believe that Israel still has nuclear weapons, and these
> > should be off the table completely. A war of any sort in
> > these small areas can escalate into annihilation: to the
> > limit as I once wrote.
> >
> > 4. The hospital systems of Gaza and Israel should connect and
> > the wounded of all parties should be able to receive
> > immediate treatment.
> >
> > 5. Talks should begin on all of this, sidelining Netanyahu and
> > Hamas; there should be no room for absolutism.
> >
> > 6. Jerusalem, in parts, should be an international city; there
> > are a number of religions which are somewhat central there,
> > and there should be no competition. It would be governed
> both
> > as the capital of Israel and an important religious and
> > political center for Arabs, Christians, and Jews.
> >
> > 7. I would keep in relation to 6, the ultra-orthodox out of
> all
> > of this; their reasoning tends towards catastrophe, and,
> like
> > Netanyahu, they have no interest in anything other, I think,
> > than total annihilation of the Arabs. The same would hold
> for
> > any other religion as well. I'd argue for the UN to control
> > the temple mount, wailing wall, etc.
> >
> > 8. A great deal of all of this should center on the Jordan
> River
> > which has been known for a long time to be in a contention
> > that's damaging to everyone - instead there should be an
> > international agency composed of all the countries involved,
> > to find the best way to employ the water for agriculture and
> > so forth. Likewise Israeli desalinization plants should be
> > open to all. Articles I've read have indicated that this
> > might well be sustainable.
> >
> > 9. Cross-cultural education should be offered to all and
> perhaps
> > made mandatory; there are too many misrecognitions among
> > peoples that are resulting in the growths of hatreds.
> > Face-to-face peaceful encounters should be instituted;
> > there's already much too much false information online on
> > both side to result in anything other than a sense of
> > absolute warfare and enemies.
> >
> > 10. In terms of #2, the pull-out should be an immediate
> priority
> > and Israeli hospitals and other institutions should be open
> > to receiving the wounded. In other words, there must be
> > immediate steps taken, above all, to at least hint of a
> > periphery of reconciliation and cooperation; the land-mass
> > is too rugged, too alienating itself for anyone to prosper
> > without cooperation.
> >
> > 11. Obviously there should be term limits on Israeli leaders;
> > Netanyahu, who of course is corrupt, is going the way of
> all
> > strong-men, caressing the state, consolidating power,
> > ensuring his continuous re-election, and working with a
> > vengeful and underlying militarism that affects everything.
> > The fact that he listens to no one but himself in this
> > catastrophe - which he is now both creating and continuing
> -
> > indicates he has no desire for a peace process. I'm
> reminded
> > of Pogo, "We have met the enemy and he is us" - and this is
> > absolutely true in this situation, with perhaps the worst
> > collateral damage the world has seen since World War II;
> > again Dresden comes to mind.
> >
> > 12. There should be any number of "temporary" withdrawals on
> the
> > Israeli side, to see if Hamas could be contained or even
> > become part of the peace process. In other words, in order
> > to give peace a chance, you need a space for peace, a space
> > that would, at least for the moment, refuse recrimination
> in
> > the interests of the families and cultural institutions
> > caught up in the middle of all of this. (Remember John and
> > Yoko's bed.)
> >
> > 13. I wonder if lessons might not be derived from Hiroshima in
> > particular, a cultural backing-away, finding other paths to
> > process what is happening and what has happened. I remember
> > the long tradition of the Jewish Left in America, saw it
> > work out, at least for a while, in New York city, and
> > whether one might draw on that as well. We're on the brink
> > of inconceivable horror, even worse than the current
> > carpet-bombing and violent moving of populations from one
> > place to another, what I called at one point "annihilation:
> > to the limit." We live in a universal shtetl.
> >
> > 14. Finally, I'd even think of Thomas Merton, Liberation
> > Theology, the world's calling for peace over and over
> again,
> > so many protests, so much pain distributed everywhere, and
> > see if it would be possible to at least begin the peace
> > process. I cannot imagine what it must be like living in
> > Gaza with continuous bombing, etc. - no sleep, no clean
> > clothes, no shelter, and always in a resulting state of
> > inconceivable anxiety and danger, sleeplessness and lack of
> > medication, nowhere to go, constant contradictory orders,
> > and people dying or wounded everywhere around you - in
> other
> > words a phenomenological environment of pain, fear,
> > exhaustion, hunger, illness. That should be absolutely
> > paramount.
> >
> > 15. I know of course what I'm writing is a fiction, has no
> > ultimate meaning in terms of performativity; it's something
> > I've been thinking about for a lot time, way before August.
> > A final note, the simplest thing - everyone involved should
> > be talking, however where and when, with everyone involved.
> > And more than anything, this should be within a safe space
> > for listening as well.
> >
> > - Alan
> >
> >
> > __
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NetBehaviour mailing list
> > NetBehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org
> > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2023 12:20:15 +0200
> From: Zak Qlikman <gishel.sim at gmail.com>
> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
> <netbehaviour at lists.netbehaviour.org>
> Subject: [NetBehaviour] Distorted views
> Message-ID:
>
> <CAHEb=57wEZ0ka7zF=Z_WkBcX4NQ2G0Kvt8NTkUrm-7meA4X+gA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Aidan's unpleasant voice cuts through the ether, expressing
> frustration and
> heartache like a discordant melody in an otherwise tranquil
> room.
>
> "Why can't you take a moment to think about me?" Aidan's words
> hang in the
> air, heavy with emotion. "This is all a mistake. It's never
> going to work."
> [image: s#rroomsco - 01 Distorted views.jpg]
> Zak, resigned and wearing a puzzled expression, realizes that
> there's no
> use in attempting a response. It's as if their words exist in
> parallel
> universes, never quite aligning.
>
> Aidan, determined to be heard, presses on, "I can't handle it.
> For me, it's
> like cheating: You feel great, and I feel terrible."
>
> The room feels like a theater of the absurd, with emotions and
> accusations
> swirling around like bizarre props in a surreal play. Zak
> struggles to find
> words, caught in the maelstrom of Aidan's discontent.
>
> Aidan continues, their voice a tempest of frustration, "Why do
> you always
> make me feel like I'm intruding? You get all the recognition and
> feedback
> you want, and you always forget that I exist. It deeply hurts
> me. Suddenly,
> I'm not good enough anymore. That's exactly how I feel."
>
> In this ridiculous spectacle, they're confronted with the stark
> reality
> that their relationship has become a farce, a carnival of
> misunderstandings
> and unfulfilled expectations. It's clear that their distorted
> views of each
> other have irreparably transformed their connection into a
> bizarre circus.
> They stand there, looking at each other with a mixture of regret
> and
> resignation.
>
> --
>
> http://thevisitors.jeron.org/
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