<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>Of course here the "standing on shoulders" metaphor breaks down unless we're contortionists because I personally owe you a great deal Brian...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There's a continuum from influence to appropriation to remix to criticism - it's called being a human being.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The defence of copyright *is* of course about money but at a deeper level than each particular instance - it's about defending the notion of the isolated and hence deserving genius whose work somehow springs fully formed out of the space between his or her ears; about confirming the idea that, in the words of Margaret Hilda Thatcher, "there's no such thing as society". It's not that the judge failed to understand art - it's that she understood <EM>all too well</EM> existing property relations, which she is tasked to defend, and the relations of hierarchy and deference that are need to underpin them.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Whereas I think, in the most profound of senses, we're not alone...it's a horrible bloody hierarchical mess out there but one can discern the outlines of something better....</DIV>
<DIV>michael<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 4/2/11, brian gibson <I><baiowulf@gmail.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: brian gibson <baiowulf@gmail.com><BR>Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Cariou vs. Prince: THE COPYRIGHT BUNGLE<BR>To: "NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity" <netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org><BR>Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 12:21 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1864069370>> <SPAN style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px" class=yiv1864069370Apple-style-span>Even when artists have not appropriated they have always stood on the shoulders of others, for techniques, for subject matter, for an appraoch to that subject matter, for materials, for everything</SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13px" class=yiv1864069370Apple-style-span></SPAN><FONT class=yiv1864069370Apple-style-span face="arial, sans-serif"><SPAN style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" class=yiv1864069370Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV><FONT class=yiv1864069370Apple-style-span face="arial, sans-serif"><SPAN style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" class=yiv1864069370Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13px" class=yiv1864069370Apple-style-span></SPAN><FONT class=yiv1864069370Apple-style-span face="arial, sans-serif"><SPAN style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" class=yiv1864069370Apple-style-span>i suppose i owe you and Doron royalties then, Michael ;)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv1864069370gmail_quote>On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Michael Szpakowski <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="http://us.mc1145.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=szpako@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:szpako@yahoo.com">szpako@yahoo.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=yiv1864069370gmail_quote>And in a reductio ad absurdum the argument could be applied to *any* kind of representation, by whatever means, of *anything* where someone feels they have some "intellectual property rights".<BR>Even when artists have not appropriated they have always stood on the shoulders of others, for techniques, for subject matter, for an appraoch to that subject matter, for materials, for everything. Human beings are irredeemably social in all they do and art is no exception.<BR>michael<BR><BR><BR>--- On Fri, 4/1/11, Rob Myers <<A href="http://us.mc1145.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rob@robmyers.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:rob@robmyers.org">rob@robmyers.org</A>> wrote:<BR><BR><BR><BR>> From: Rob Myers <<A href="http://us.mc1145.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rob@robmyers.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank
 ymailto="mailto:rob@robmyers.org">rob@robmyers.org</A>><BR>> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Cariou vs. Prince: THE COPYRIGHT BUNGLE<BR>> To: <A href="http://us.mc1145.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org">netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org</A><BR>> Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 11:27 PM<BR>
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<DIV class=yiv1864069370h5>> On 01/04/11 21:51, bob catchpole<BR>> wrote:<BR>> > <BR>> > Are you sure you know what you're talking about?<BR>><BR>> Yes.<BR>><BR>> "[...]early in the history of photography, there was a<BR>> series of<BR>> judicial decisions that could well have changed the course<BR>> of<BR>> photography substantially. Courts were asked whether the<BR>> photographer,<BR>> amateur or professional, required permission before he<BR>> could capture and<BR>> print whatever image he wanted. Their answer was no.[^31]<BR>><BR>> The arguments in favor of requiring permission will sound<BR>> surprisingly<BR>> familiar. The photographer was "taking" something from the<BR>> person or<BR>> building whose photograph he shot - pirating something of<BR>> value.[...]"<BR>><BR>> <A href="http://www.jus.uio.no/sisu/free_culture.lawrence_lessig/plain.txt" rel=nofollow
 target=_blank>http://www.jus.uio.no/sisu/free_culture.lawrence_lessig/plain.txt</A><BR>><BR>> - Rob.<BR>><BR>><BR></DIV></DIV>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR>
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<DIV class=yiv1864069370h5>><BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> NetBehaviour mailing list<BR>> <A href="http://us.mc1145.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org">NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org</A><BR>> <A href="http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour</A><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NetBehaviour mailing list<BR><A href="http://us.mc1145.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org">NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org</A><BR><A href="http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour</A><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
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<DIV class=plainMail>_______________________________________________<BR>NetBehaviour mailing list<BR><A href="http://us.mc1145.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org" ymailto="mailto:NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org">NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org</A><BR><A href="http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour" target=_blank>http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour</A></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table>