In answer to the discussions on violence, it depends what we mean. We do not need guns to effect change.

I'd say that *non-violent* resistance has got people a long way... Nowadays especially, when the revolutions are led by media stories and good coverage is the way to hearts and minds, there is a lot to be said for staging clever non-violent interventions - and I mean staging them. Though none of that is new either, the Suffragettes, Gandhi, etc. did it. 

I just had the antecedence of that legendary photo of Rosa Parks on the bus explained to me. No surprises that such a dignified woman was picked for the exercise. But I didn't know that the guy behind her was part of the media entourage there to cover the event. When they couldn't get the picture they needed with some white guy behind her, they put one of the team there.

Cultural change may be slower than revolution but it embeds new ways of being rather than merely agitating and brutalising people. And smart resistance using the technologies of the time is a cornerstone of culture change. As this list knows... being smart and resisting. 

My tuppence ha'penny,
Ann 

On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 7:20 AM, AGF poemproducer <agf@poemproducer.com> wrote:
i’d say slavery would have not been ended without violent uproar by slaves

i’d say french revolution made a few points

i am no expert

but all i see is super gangsters with guns winning
how would they go away by themselves without a big shoot out

very curious



On 31 May 2017, at 20:30, aharon <misnom@spell.blue> wrote:

Yes.. hard to imagine without violence and indeed, perhaps, even the wonderings that attempt to rid of viovence - fail in the face of brutalisation.

I have to say.. sorry but perhaps a question needs to be asked, with a general You in mind:
have you been to places and in contact with people who went through the serious blood shedding - and actually got their way?

its an honest question. am curious because it seems to me, perhaps wrongly, that when ever violence is being used - from implied through to verbal and onto the body - everyone lose.
Suddenly what was hoped for initially is being eclipsed by the urgency to deal with the effects from violence. Hope is eclipsed and, many times, i think, gets lost by the very acts of violence..

hence.. here in brasilia.. with the recent violence.. it seems to me, that the very deliverers of violence, the waiters of violence, (aka soldiers) had to be questioned through imagination, through energetic means rather than either power nor violence.. A wry smile from a soldier being asked who's violence is he waiting to deliver from, the woman who can not afford health care, or a president that needs power? A look of a click from a soldier that just realisied he can be, at times, un-guided.. I hope I didn't use violence then.. Just for that spark of imagination being able to be questioned..
I think it was done without neither power nor violence.. However, always ready to learn..

If am wrong - what am i missing? (will be glad to hear and maybe even manage to learn! :) )

Have much fun!

aharon
xx

May 30 2017 7:39 AM, "AGF poemproducer" <agf@poemproducer.com> wrote:
 
hard to imagine there is a way fwd without serious blood shed
;(
you forgot to say, they have the biggest guns
and are advise by google
 
 
On 29 May 2017, at 19:13, Randall Packer <rpacker@zakros.com> wrote:
 
TRUMP’s New World Disorder is revolution of the highest magnitude, played out on the world stage, a geo-mashup and disruption of convention, democracy, and humanity.
Randall
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